Saxo HGF

[PC2CV]

I bought my grandparents a Saxo recently. A 2000 1.4 Automatic for £200 with 57,000 miles and a "full service history"

Yesterday was spent sorting the brakes, putting new disks and pads on the front then trying to bleed a calliper with a broken bleed screw, the brakes are still terrible and despite trying there is no way to get them to bite and give a good sudden stop.

However the bad bit came when i went to remove the radiator to do a flush, i filled up the old radiator just to see where it was leaking from and was greeted with this:




Plenty of oil in the coolant system currently, i know the TU is a fairly easy engine to work on and a HG can be changed in an afternoon.

The question is can i get away wihtout a head skim, do the head bolts need to be replaced, and is there any funny business with the piston liners position when the head is removed? Before i start into this am i forgetting any costs?

[chinkostu]

may as well change the caliper they're cheap enough! is the pedal spongy or does it just feel like it has loads of travel?


suprised it hasn't gone mayonnaisey though, definately oil? theres loads of room on these so should be an easy job, head bolts are stretch type so will need replacing unfortunately, you could probably get away without skimming if it's only a break in the gasket. the 1.4 does have wet liners, can't seem to find my haynes to see if theres anything special though.

[white exec]

Yes, could well be the head gasket.

IF the engine has an oil-water heat exchanger (usually immediately under the oil filter - two water hoses attached) check this out first. They are usually reliable, but have been known to rupture/perforate internally, especially if coolant quality has been neglected. This will allow engine oil to be injected into the cooling system.

To test, remove both of the water pipes from the exchanger, and join them together with a short piece of 15mm tube, or similar. Run engine, and if oil flows from the exchanger, it is internally holed.

They are cheap and easy to renew.

[ekjdm14]

Strange the oil hasn't turned to "mayonnaise" as mentioned, maybe it's only just started though and not had a chance to emulsify yet. if it's got an oil cooler definitely check that first before ripping into the HG job. 57k seems quite low for one to die on a TU unless it's been cooled by tap water for a while. I suppose it's also possible it's been airlocked and cooked if there's a bad enough leak in the rad for long enough. (For that reason, I'd be wary of throwing the head back on without at least having a straight edge over it to make sure it's in decent shape. be a shame to go to all that trouble only to have to do it again with a skim in a month or two specially as you'd be into buying the head bolts yet again)

Incidentally, bearing in mind your location and the proliferation of 305's in your fleet, you wouldn't happen to be a certain youtube-posting mechanic/serial field car thrasher by any chance? If not, I'd lay money that you know of whom I speak...

[white exec]

Water in engine oil goes mayonnaisey; oil in the cooling system stays black, and usually accumulates at the top of everything, and so you can make a start in "hooking it out" by repeatedly dipping dry kitchen roll into the header tank. Oil clings to towel, water is left behind. Start this way, and then go for the cleaning fluid below.
If the HG leak is between the an oilway (eg corner O-ring set into the HG) and a waterway, then the result is usually oil in the coolant, rather than the other way round. This is because oil pressure is usually at least twice that in the cooling system.
When you need to clean the cooling system out, I can really recommend Liqui-Moly Radiator Cleaner (300ml) ref 2506. Buy two cans, and follow the instructions. It's excellent at removing oil from the complete cooling system, after it's all back together again. Available from most motor factors; not sure about Halfds. Worth the effort of getting hold of. Don't muck about with detergents etc., use this instead.

[PC2CV]

Strange the oil hasn't turned to "mayonnaise" as mentioned, maybe it's only just started though and not had a chance to emulsify yet. if it's got an oil cooler definitely check that first before ripping into the HG job. 57k seems quite low for one to die on a TU unless it's been cooled by tap water for a while. I suppose it's also possible it's been airlocked and cooked if there's a bad enough leak in the rad for long enough. (For that reason, I'd be wary of throwing the head back on without at least having a straight edge over it to make sure it's in decent shape. be a shame to go to all that trouble only to have to do it again with a skim in a month or two specially as you'd be into buying the head bolts yet again)

Incidentally, bearing in mind your location and the proliferation of 305's in your fleet, you wouldn't happen to be a certain youtube-posting mechanic/serial field car thrasher by any chance? If not, I'd lay money that you know of whom I speak...

No oil cooler around the oil filter housing. So off the head came:







Looks like the oil seal has went, new HG kit ordered, and im going to take the head to have it tested to be sure to be sure, at least with a new HG in place the car should be good to go for another few years.

Only question that remains is what is the best thing to clean up the engine block mating surface, in particular around the liners, i dont want to disturb their position.

Yep thats me that has the 305's and posts the videos on youtube. I am recording the Saxos head gasket job as i do it so hopefully there will be a video out of it at the end.

[chinkostu]

Blunt blade usually isn't it? Just be wary of digging into the surface! An old wallpaper stripper is the usual choice

[white exec]

Some solvent and a rag, then a flat fine file to remove any crud, but not any metal. Finish off with block and emery, then wipe clean with solvent again. Bung up the exposed waterways with paper towel to stop debris going where it shouldn't.

[ekjdm14]

I've tended to always use an old Stanley blade to remove the worst of the crud, then follow up (on ferrous surfaces only, not ally!) with some fine scotchbrite although I have "got away" with using an old scouring sponge from the kitchen to the same effect too...

Not sure if the head bolt holes are blind or not, but if they are then once you've cleaned up the threads make sure the holes are fully clean and dry before reassembly so you don't have any issues with false torque readings.

I had a feeling it was yourself sir, nice to "meet" you lol. Our youngest loves your field car/blow up & cold start videos (wouldn't say I exactly find it a chore to watch with him either lol), we saw the video of the rusty 305 not long ago, the one you brought back for parts. Shame it'd got into such a state as IIRC you said it'd been a cherished car prior to it's lay up. But how do you find so many of the old pugs, were they especially popular over there or just a particular passion for you?

Anyway the inside of that engine seems to bear out the low mileage, bores look like new and doesn't appear to be much in the way of corrosion in the water jacket or galleries in the head. Always nice to find you're working with a mechanically sound motor & it should make a good little run about once it's fixed up. Actually my eye was drawn to that corner of the engine in the first few photos when you found oil in the rad, I did think it looked a little bit oily by the cam belt cover but assumed it was just the rocker cover gasket. I reckon though if you replace that as well on reassembly you'd end up with a relative rarity in having a dry TU engine bay...

[chinkostu]

that corner of the HG always seems to leak, both of mine did but without any failure, just weeped!

[PC2CV]

The Saxo is running again. The head required a skim, so in total it took a new gasket kit, a skim, bottle of flush, and a new radiator, thermostat and bottle of anti freeze to sort the issue. On the plus side it should be good for a few more years at least.



The scotchbrite sponges worked fine, took a bit more elbow grease perhaps but it felt much safer using these than emery cloth.

Shiny head

Head back on and valve clearances set:


Changed a ropey looking steering rack boot while in there:


Started up on the first turn of the key, it was smokey as i had put a bit of oil down into the cylinder bores to stop it starting up dry after cleaning the mating surfaces with degreaser, it then had a coolant and oil flush run through it and then a new radiator fitted.

[elma]

What sort of tunnel is that you are doing the work in?

[white exec]

A poly-tunnel?
Glad you've got it properly sorted. Good pics of what looks a thorough job!

[elma]

A poly-tunnel?

yes, but one hell of a poly tunnel. Looks insulated as well, like a professional mushroom growing one. Thats why I'm curious, maybe it's for mushrooms originally and maybe they can be sourced from elsewhere because mushroom ones cost too much for me.

[PC2CV]

It is a mushroom house, same structure as a polytunnel but its fully insulated. Nice and cool in the summer and it doesnt freeze in the winter. Still has the old mushroom house heating system which blows warm air through a radiator. Thats also good if a car is running i open the back doors and the fans blow the fumes out. They are pricey i suppose to put up, this one i rent off my uncle who retired from the mushroom growing.