Looking at mk3 C5s, experiences from owners needed

[warninglight]

Hi all!

I'm new to this forum but a long time poster on forums for other marques.

My current situation is this;

I live in a village on the edge of the Lakes with a commute over single track fell roads 25 miles each way.
I have a couple of classic cars which are very much projects.
My girlfriend is studying in London so I travel down frequently, and her parents are in Nottingham, so I'm also there fairly often. My own parents are in Northern Ireland so frequent dashes to Liverpool airport or the ferry in Cairnryan. All in i do approx. 25000-30000 miles p.a.

Just about all of that is in my Discovery TD5, it manages 30mpg and it handles everything I throw at it around here with aplomb. I took it to the Vendee last year in 40 degree heat at 90mph, and John O'Groats a few weeks later. As you can imagine, the fuel bills are quite high! I've always had a tough old Volvo to hand somewhere, and I have a fondness for the late 90s T5 models. I have a 1998 V70R which is a real enthusiast's car and I love it. 250bhp, manual gearbox and metallic orange paint sets it apart from most old Volvos, but so does the 25mpg average it gets, it can nudge 30mpg on a gentle motorway run!

Because the Discovery is my most economical car I use it nearly all the time, even for runs down the motorway where it's definitely not needed. My girlfriend also can't get insured easily on the Volvo (Group 35), and so I'm thinking I need to see some sense, and change it (much as I love it and I'd struggle to find another similar) for a diesel. I've considered some big diesel cars but ultimately they're no more frugal than my Disco.

I'll be keeping the Discovery as in winter around here it's invaluable, and I have a car transporter trailer which is nicely matched up to it. I'd like to cut down on the motorway and commuting miles it does and so something comfortable which genuinely achieves 45mpg would be nice!

I'm quite sure that what I want then, is a Mk3 C5 Exclusive, as the suspension should make the commute a much more relaxed affair, and I understand the hydro systems in these don't give many issues. I'm also a sucker for toys, and things like massage seats help convince me that I won't regret changing from my fast old Volvo!

Most Exclusives seem to be manual, which isn't what I expected. Looking at the figures I guess it's the double priced tax which put new buyers off, but the economy figures also look to take a sizeable hit, of a good 5 mpg or so across the board. Do people's experiences and real world figures match up to that?

I've also seen a few 2.2HDIs which often seem cheaper than the 2.0. I've had a look through this forum and others, but can't see any particular weaknesses with them. I take it they're still a 4 cylinder, based on the same block? Is it just a slight economy hit that I'd take if I went for one of these? Again just about all manuals. Does the auto or manual stick out as the 'right' gearbox for the car? I imagine such a wafter would suit an auto best, but if the manual box is sweet (certainly not what I've found in C3s and Partners) I'd be happy to go down that route.

Are there any little variations in trim levels and options I should look out for? Am I right in thinking that the all leather seats come with driver massage as standard? Most seem to be half leather and none of them seem to have massage. It's not a must but I'd like to try it!

What sort of mileages do people regard as 'high' for one of these? There's one on ebay at the moment with 360k on the clock which tells me something at least. With Volvos I've always bought purely on condition and history and run them over 200k miles without any major issues. If these are generally in the same league then brilliant!

My ideal model would be an Exclusive tourer in black with panoramic roof, and as much as I know they'd be impractical on the fell roads here and higher tyre costs, 19 inch alloys. Essentially this one looked like a really good purchase, but a deposit has been taken on it, and it's a bit more than I'd like to spend, ideally.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301963635557? ... EBIDX%3AIT

There are a couple of 2.2 manuals with panoramic roof and 150k on the clocks for around the £3000 mark as well, does that seem reasonable? I'm most interested to hear from any members who may be selling something which may be suitable, in the coming weeks and months!

Apologies for the essay, if you've made it this far, thank you, and I look forward to seeing opinions and recommendations, based on the above.

[Lenny]

Morning,

Obviously I can only speak from my own recent experience but I'd say that if you like the relaxed attitude of a Discovery TD5 then you'll love a C5 Exclusive. I used to swan about in an old Range Rover Vogue auto years ago and the C5 is the closest I've come across to the experience.
I've had mine for a few months now and I love it.

I drove manuals and autos when I was looking for one and in my opinion the auto suited the car best. The manual gearbox is fine, the clutch is light and the gearchange is precise and pleasant to use, but the auto just seemed to suit the character of the car for me. As you quite rightly say the trade off is the road tax and the mpg.

The road tax isn't quite as bad if you can stretch to a 160bhp auto and I pay it on a monthly direct debit so I don't notice it particularly. The thing you really need to do is briefly consider a C6 2.7 auto instead. When you find that the tax on one of those is about £500 the C5 auto looks like a bargain.

In my opinion the mpg is excellent for such a big wafty car. I get a genuine 42mpg overall. I'm lead to believe that a manual gets high forties to low fifties. If the mpg worries you then I'd recommend a late 80s Range Rover V8 auto. 12mpg soon makes you appreciate any other car.

Another thing with the auto is that the gearbox is made in Japan by Aisin-Warner and have a decent enough reputation for reliability. Citroen claim they are sealed for life but it's generally accepted now that if the oil is changed as part of the service schedule then the gearbox is pretty fault free. The manual cars have a dual-mass flywheel to contend with that are known to give the occasional expensive problems (just the same as every other modern manual diesel does). I had a theory that the £800 for a replacement clutch and flywheel on a manual would pay for an awful lot of extra road tax and mpg.

The 2.2 engine was never sold in the UK with an auto box as far as I know, for reasons only known to Citroen UK.
Ideally I'd have loved a panoramic roof, 18" wheels and no sat-nav in Mativiore Beige but when I started looking I found that finding a 2.0Hdi auto Exclusive Tourer with less than 70k miles within my budget was difficult enough without being fussy about extras!

I went to look at a C5 Exclusive being sold by the seller you have pointed out on Ebay. The car was okay and well presented but the guy would not budge on price and didn't offer any of the normal dealer facilities- there was no warranty with the car unless I wanted to pay extra for one. I finished up buying one that was two years newer with similar mileage privately for £1700 less.

I get the impression that they handle high miles as well as anything else. The one I looked at with 105k was certainly weathering much better inside than the BMW company car I had a couple of years ago with that mileage. There is lots and lots of high mileage stuff out there. 200k is fairly common and 300k is not particularly rare. The bargain way could well be to buy one with 110-120k and run it to 180-190k. I just wanted to find one that I'd look after and keep for ten years or so went for a lower mileage one.

I hope some of this essay is of some use to you. Like I say- most of it is just my opinion and I've got problems anyway. No matter how nice any car is I still prefer driving my old 2cv most of the time.

[rmunns]

Lenny, you wrote that tome quickly! I posted twice, within 12 minutes - and then found that your posting had been done in the meantime!

I bought a LHD (I live in France) 2009 Excl. X7 automatic (with 2.0 Hdi 163hp) nearly a year ago, with 196000kM recorded. While it is an exclusive, it is a 'basic' one, no sunroof, no satellite, no massage seats.

The only useful statement I can add to this posting is that the car is wonderful. Low-mid 40's (mpg converted). Brilliant smooth motoring over 2nd or 3rd-class roads. Relaxing driving position, clear visiblity (altho' the rear window is a little small). That reminds me - the rear wiper wash seems to often be non-working; pipe delivering the water breaks, out of sight.

[old'uns]

just got rid of my 09 Exc auto for various reasons, loved it and TBH if i had the chance for another one it would be a steel sprung one.
interiors seem to stand the test of time, few little scratches but nothing major,136k, most people are surprised when looking at it.
as said above the ideal models seem to be the 2.0 160 although the 138 is perfectly capable even with 6speed auto, mine was remapped to around 170 and still did 40mpg pottering around with OH driving it.
the only other thing to say is go back over the last few months on this Forum and read threads with X7 in title......
i honestly don't think for your budget you will find what you 'think' you need, massage seats will probably be a novelty- i'll stand to be corrected if need be- another thing to go wrong, 17 alloys are better suited i think, bigger sidewalls as against elastic bands, sunroof? maybe, makes the AC work harder.
basic spec Exclusives are perfectly good cars as is.

good luck

[Lenny]

I agree about the 138bhp engine. I couldn't tell much difference between that and the 160bhp when I drove them.
For the autos there's a big difference in 0-60 times on paper but I wouldn't have guessed from behind the wheel.

[bobins]

Window winders and steering rack leaks are known to cause problems - don't know if/how well more recent cars were modified to try to overcome this though. Both are fixable at home if you're competent at such things, though you'd need a whole recon steering rack to cure a leaking one ! Front suspension units have been known to leak on the Hydractive cars though it's not that common, a second hand unit may be easiest and cheapest way to fix that problem. There have been very occasional reports of the radio aerials giving problems, but a discrete aftermarket aerial can easily sort that issue.
If you're planning on doing any of your own maintenance above checking the fluids and replacing lamps, then a Lexia/Diagbox (plus laptop to run it on) is essential..... or live next to someone who owns one ! A working copy of the Citroen electronic workshop manual (Citroen DocBackup / Sedre) is also extremely handy - eBay or torrent sites are a handy source for this, though it's not the easiest thing to install on a computer.

I've owned my steel sprung 2.0hdi saloon for over 5 years, I don't do mega mileage in it, but when I do use it, it's mainly for long journeys. It's very comfy, has plenty of power for my needs, is economical enough, has proved more or less reliable, but every time I use it I wonder if this will be the day the steering rack starts leaking or the window winders will break

[GiveMeABreak]

My 2.0 140 manual Exclusive returns 43 MPG in the hilly areas of rural West Wales, but on an M4 trip will easily return mid to high 50s keeping it under 70.

You only get the massage seats on the full leather pack and they are brilliant and not a gimmick. The seats are really comfortable anyway, but the shiatsu massage is great.

Ditto the steering rack issue, I've had mine replaced brand new after that started leaking, and also if going for a manual, DON'T ride then the clutch. DMF can give varied life. Mine was changed at 45k ish with clutch. (Previous owner towed a caravan) so I'm hoping I'll get a lot more before the next change.

Reliable? Yes, never let me down, NG4 is a great unit IMO, has all the voice control, DVD, Bluetooth and internal phones, emergency SOS system, USB, SD card media player stuff and I've just had the latest 2016 maps on, which work great, as long as you can live with 5 digit postcode mapping.
Adaptive Bi-Xenons are great on the country roads as is the angular lighting on corners and at junctions. Don't miss the sunroof at all as the car is very roomy.

Hydractive suspension is generally very reliable and comfortable. With the sport setting indispensable for the country. All I will say from personal experience is get a Citroen approved vehicle if you can under 70k with their warranty. I've used it significantly with no quibbles to have various jobs done and extended it twice now for piece of mind. Mind you the good spec. Models are getting harder to find now as production in UK ended in April.

[Lighty]

Personally I would go for the higher bhp & auto option, I have driven loads , and the performance is way better, not sure how you couldn't notice.
Highly unlikely that the clutch & DMC will complete more than around 130,000 miles & as said this is a pricey job. Front suspension hydraulics are about £200 + vat now, so not that expensive, and they don't fail all that often. Window regs tend to go as said.
I think it's hard to buy a more comfy car & they eat the miles with pace like you wouldn't believe. If I did lots of miles, this would be my choice for sure.

[Paul-R]

Can I say that the manual X7 is the one for me. I searched for manual excluding autos as I just can't bear the performance/economy/taxation hit. The manual gearbox is a joy to use.

I've just returned from half-term holiday. Not done the final economy figures yet as I've not filled up but up to and including filling up at Calais, over 1700 miles average for my Exclusive Estate is in the low 50s. I'm not a maximum speed 130Km/h guy on the autoroutes but kept to 110 at most times.

There was a brief bit of spirited driving in the UK when we were leaving when I had to press on hard to make up time from all the motorway delays. That still managed 48mpg.

[Stickyfinger]

The 2ltr HDI models for me (having had a 1.6 which I hated)
An Auto box for me as the C-Control can be activated at any speed (+30) and you just pull all the way up to the set speed as the gear changes do not interfere with it.
2ltr HDI is a basic bomb proof engine with plenty of torque and it is the least problematic with the anti pollution stuff added.

[warninglight]

Thanks for all the replies so far, all good points, and food for thought!

I'm quite happy to do all my own maintenance, and I have an old Toughbook with Win XP on it for just that sort of job. My brother used to have Lexia for his old 407 but sold it a few weeks back, typical, the car went 3 years ago!

If it's still there this weekend when I'm in the Midlands, there's one at a dealer which I may go to look at. Black exclusive estate, FSH, one owner, 2.0 manual, full leather, pano roof, nav etc. with a recent clutch. It's just hit 100k and looks quite fresh in photos, if possibly slightly low on the back axle.

As always, I'd much rather buy from an enthusiast who knows their car, rather than essentially buying something from the fleet auction lot with a hefty markup, so will see what comes up!

[KennyW]

I agree with all the comments. I have had mine for 5 months now and the only problem was a leaky tyre valve. Replacement valve repair kits from citroen £5.

It's done a few miles already and long distance driving is a pleasure.

It will be going to France at the end of the month so I'll see what figures are produced but I'm averaging at the moment +40 mpg.

Kenny

[Paul-R]

My brother used to have Lexia for his old 407 but sold it a few weeks back, typical, the car went 3 years ago!

You can console yourself with the thought that it was probably PP2000, not Lexia, that he had as this was the equivalent for Peugeots and really useable on Citroens. Unless he had a then fairly new purchase of Diagbox which now does both. Oh, I've made it worse!

... if possibly slightly low on the back axle.

As the Exclusive will be Hydractive that shouldn't happen. It may be a simple matter to reset the height though. If you're careful you can adjust the height potentiometer manually without using a Lexia/Diagbox - as I did when I changed a broken pot on the back of my old Mk 1 C5.

[Paul-R]

It will be going to France at the end of the month so I'll see what figures are produced but I'm averaging at the moment +40 mpg

Is that for an auto? It seems awfully low for the 160 manual.

[warninglight]

... if possibly slightly low on the back axle.

As the Exclusive will be Hydractive that shouldn't happen. It may be a simple matter to reset the height though. If you're careful you can adjust the height potentiometer manually without using a Lexia/Diagbox - as I did when I changed a broken pot on the back of my old Mk 1 C5.

The very similar spec C5 the same seller had for sale had the same stance, looking just slightly down at the back. It may just be perspective, I'll post a link when I'm home this evening and see what others think to its stance.