It goes wonky round corners

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It goes wonky round corners

Post by swiveleyedgit »

but only right hand ones.

Evening all, my C5 estate has been giving me food for thought lately. I have renewed most of the front suspension, control arms, ball joints anti roll bar bushes, drop links as they were all knackered, all these bits were the original parts by the look of it. It's also had new discs and pads, and 4 new Michelin primacys and an alignment as well.

It drives wonderfully well now, the best it's been since I've had it. The new tyres are quiet and the brakes are excellent, pulling up in a straight line no matter how hard I shove the pedal. There's just one small problem, if I take a right hand corner at speed, so that it loads up the suspension a bit, there's a disconcerting wiggle that feels like the car is tightening up the line round the corner by itself, without me turning the steering wheel, as if the tyre is sort of tucking under somehow. That's the best way I can describe it really, it's such an odd feeling. The car has recently had an MOT and I talked to the tester about it, hoping he might be able to find something amiss but he reckoned that the steering and suspension looked ok. I did think it might be something loose or wearing out in the rack, although I would have thought that would show up during the MOT.

I'm at a loss now as to what try next, there's no obvious noises coming from anywhere to give me a clue either, your thoughts will be appreciated.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by white exec »

You say you've replaced many suspension parts, but does that include the spheres?
Just wondering whether, if taking the corner at speed (when the suspension will switch to Firm), IF one corner sphere is either incorrect pressure, or is the incorrect sphere (= wrong damping) you could get the effect you describe.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by Stickyfinger »

I would bet that is the rear radius bearings......my Mk1 felt like it was "cutting under" in corners. A bit of rear wheel steer wakes you up at times :)
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I had the radius arm bearings done on my C5 estate, and she now feels tighter in the corners. I did, however, have the warning creaks to give me a clue as to what the problem was. Cost was around £500, and the Citroen specialist used Citroen parts , so she should be good for another 100,000 miles.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by swiveleyedgit »

Thanks for the replies, it has had new spheres on the front a few months ago. I hadn't thought about the rear bearings, if I raise and lower the car from low to high it looks ok, doesn't make any noises as far as I can tell. Is there a simple way of checking them without taking half the car to bits?
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by lexi »

If you are keeping the car and are spannering yourself, it may be worth doing the rear arm bearings. Firstly, it is another inevitable pig of a job out the way. Secondly it ticks another box in your elimination process. Different of course if you are getting a garage to do it. That would make me reluctant to chance spending the money, for maybe no result.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The only time I ever had the 'cutting in' effect on cornering was for an anti roll bar drop link - once replaced that cured it. As you've had these done and the spheres replaced - mentioned by Chris, I can only suggest to check the suspension strut - is there any play or is it leaking badly? There is obviously some 'give' somewhere here.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by Mandrake »

swiveleyedgit wrote: Evening all, my C5 estate has been giving me food for thought lately. I have renewed most of the front suspension, control arms, ball joints anti roll bar bushes, drop links as they were all knackered, all these bits were the original parts by the look of it. It's also had new discs and pads, and 4 new Michelin primacys and an alignment as well.

It drives wonderfully well now, the best it's been since I've had it. The new tyres are quiet and the brakes are excellent, pulling up in a straight line no matter how hard I shove the pedal. There's just one small problem, if I take a right hand corner at speed, so that it loads up the suspension a bit, there's a disconcerting wiggle that feels like the car is tightening up the line round the corner by itself, without me turning the steering wheel, as if the tyre is sort of tucking under somehow. That's the best way I can describe it really, it's such an odd feeling. The car has recently had an MOT and I talked to the tester about it, hoping he might be able to find something amiss but he reckoned that the steering and suspension looked ok. I did think it might be something loose or wearing out in the rack, although I would have thought that would show up during the MOT.

I'm at a loss now as to what try next, there's no obvious noises coming from anywhere to give me a clue either, your thoughts will be appreciated.
You say you've replaced the ball joints at the front - does that include both track rod ends ?

If so was the wheel tracking measured and aligned accurately and correctly ? Could be that the tracking is out, small changes in wheel tracking, even within the acceptable adjustment range can significantly affect the feel of the steering and cornering. It's generally best to have the tracking set half way in the allowable range too, just because its within spec doesn't necessarily mean its optimal.

For example on a Xantia its 0 to 3mm toe out, however there is a large difference in steering feel between minimum and maximum allowed figures, I've always found setting it to about half way gives the best result, so if its near either extreme consider re-adjusting it to be in the middle of the allowed range.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by swiveleyedgit »

Thanks for the further replies, more options that I hadn't considered!

As Givemeabreak says, it could be the strut. There is a slight misting around both the front struts but the fluid level in the reservoir has never altered since I've had the car, can they become knackered internally with no outward signs? Can they be rebuilt?

Mandrake, I did change the track rod ends as well now I think about it. The alignment after the new tyres were fitted feels spot on, steering wheel straight ahead and turning from lock to lock is smooth. I will check and see if they are adjusted equally, when the howling gale that is blowing outside dies down a bit.

I will check the rear arm bearings as well, what's the procedure for this? Jack it up and pull around?
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Bob - it is known that the C5 struts can 'sweat' a little LDS from the struts (the reason why it is important to remove the LDS fluid tank cap if raising a C5 off the ground on a lift with the wheels hanging free as this can cause a additional pressure on the seals). If everything else checks out, perhaps a re-check that everything is tightened up correctly - or have you got a faulty anti roll bar link?
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by c.morewood »

I'd give the rear a check over as well.. just replaced my rear o/s wheel bearing on the Xantia.. no noise at all but it had enough play to upset the steering.
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by Stickyfinger »

You cannot really check the rear bearings when the car is jacked, the suspension takes up the play (was told this by the garage and on the site).......not sure how it is done
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by swiveleyedgit »

Stickyfinger wrote:You cannot really check the rear bearings when the car is jacked, the suspension takes up the play (was told this by the garage and on the site).......not sure how it is done
I guess I'd have to disconnect the anti roll bar and the strut mounting bolt, may be enough to get an idea, might as well take the rest of it off if I got that far. :)
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by Mandrake »

The suspension would have to be fully de-pressurised so that the arm is limp, and you would also have to disconnect the roll bar so that any side to side rocking slack would not be restrained by the roll bar itself. Then it should be possible to move the arm by hand and observe any slack. Like ball joints though it can be notoriously difficult to determine whether there is any slack with the small amount of force a human being can apply versus the loads that the suspension is under during driving and cornering conditions - unless the slack is really bad.

PS - nobody has suggested failed/worn rear suspension passive steering bushes ?
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Re: It goes wonky round corners

Post by swiveleyedgit »

Mandrake wrote:The suspension would have to be fully de-pressurised so that the arm is limp, and you would also have to disconnect the roll bar so that any side to side rocking slack would not be restrained by the roll bar itself. Then it should be possible to move the arm by hand and observe any slack. Like ball joints though it can be notoriously difficult to determine whether there is any slack with the small amount of force a human being can apply versus the loads that the suspension is under during driving and cornering conditions - unless the slack is really bad.

PS - nobody has suggested failed/worn rear suspension passive steering bushes ?

Oh hell, more bushes! Where are they?, I don't think I've had the pleasure.... :-D
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