Xantia newbie suspension query

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Morten
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Post by Morten »

The equipment costed €368 when I bought it. The valves was about €10 each. The gas is about €25 for refill (5Kg which last "forever") of the gas tank. I could rent or buy the gas tank. I bought it for €250. If you add this together, it may not be good business where you live, but it is for me, with the prices we have here in Norway :-) As a bonus of re-gassing myself, I have control over my spheres and their condition. If I suspect something is wrong with a sphere, I just connect the equipment (takes 5 min to depressure and 2 min to connect the equipment) and read the pressure. And if the spheres doesn't work properly, I got no one else to blame than myself :-)
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Morten -
This refill equipment has been around for y's - but it's quite hard to find retailers who stock these bits.
AFAIR it's the Italian company Valprex who do these valves and the connection/filler hose for the industry gas flask.
GSF used to stock these bits back in their AndySpares era - but no longer available.
You know of any retailers stocking these bits ?
- like ClassicParts in Norway ?
Morten
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Post by Morten »

Anders,
I bought mine from a swiss company called CPR Rechsteiner (they have a second office in Germany). I checked their website today ( www.cpr.ch ), and could not find reference to my equipment. Send them an email, they are very helpful. The system is swissmade and called Sphero-Meter art.nr. SM 2000 and valve is art.nr ETG 100. If you have XM you also need art.nr. CMX304 which is for the central sphere (without the need to remove it).
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Tx Morten [:)]
Neil T
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Post by Neil T »

Thanks for all the informative replies. They do raise more questions for me though:
1) If it is possible to re-gas your own spheres on the car, then are there garages in the UK that will do this?
2) Are spheres reconditioned, ie. new valves and seals, or are they just re-gassed (and re-painted)?
3) What is the damage a 'flat' sphere can do to the rest of the suspension, and what makes a 'flat' sphere unsuitable for re-gassing?
So far I've got a quote for £150 fitted for 6 re-gassed spheres from Westroen. They say they charge £10 (carriage) more for just supplying them because they don't get the old spheres back to re-gas.
I've also been quoted £133.60p for supplying new spheres from gsf who tell me that they don't do re-gassed for my model.
Don't know how to decide without answers to the above, and some objective information on the difference between new and re-gassed (apart from the obvious of course!)
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi Neil -
Westroen is a reputed regasser - they know what they do.
1) Yes - but the plug must be replaced with a valve - hence an initial extra cost for the valve itself. Westroen does exactly this.
2) Reconditioned spheres are cleaned, inspected (tried for membrane leaks), regassed and painted. No valve is fitted - just a cap plug as usual. It's known that regassed spheres fails shortly - despite the leak test - as the membrane may show fine in testing - but still may be weak and start leaking after some time with new fresh pressure.
3) A flat sphere will of course not provide a spring element in the suspension - thus the suspension parts are strained as well as the body parts.
The problem with a flat sphere is the internal membrane pressed against the sphere inner wall (by the fluid pressure) thus damaging the membrane - making it leak out the gas (into the hydraulic system).
A sphere is denoted "flat" once the suspension feels hard - i.e. when the standard manual test pressing down each corner clearly feels like very little suspension movement left.
The point is to have the spheres regassed as soon as the suspension feels hard - and the above test still reveals at least some movement.
This would be at approx 10-20 bar precharge pressure left in the spheres.
Experienced owners either choose option 1) above - or replaces the spheres with new units.
As the average DIY owner has no means of testing a regassed sphere - you can only choose the 3-4£'s saving (pr sphere) with reconditioned - and then fit them. If you then within weeks or months experince flat spheres again - then your savings first off would be fair to say was a lottery !
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uhn113x
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Post by uhn113x »

Hi Neil
I'll try to answer your questions in order.
There are people in UK that regas spheres on car - if you go to a larger CCC event, there is always someone there doing this - Ray Andrews, Mark Lightfoot et al
The only valve in a sphere is the one that the gas is filled through, so this is renewed. The only seal that is accessible is the ring that you replace anyway.
When a sphere is flat, the diaphragm will be pushed towards the valve end every time you go over a bump; inside there is a steel retainer with a couple of sharp tags on it that damage the diaphragm.
With a flat sphere, you effectively have no suspension, so all road shocks are transmitted to the entire mechanism and body
£133.60 for 6 spheres sounds fine
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Post by Neil T »

Thanks, it's beginning to look like new, fitted myself would be the best bet.
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