C5 in for MOT tomorrow

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by Stickyfinger »

err....so did I :)
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
superloopy
Posts: 3306
Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 03:25
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 18

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by superloopy »

[emoji106]

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
BenC5HDi
Not Mike
Posts: 588
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 20:21
Location: Around Berkshire
My Cars: '07 Peugeot 207 1.4 "Sport" (Ha!)
'04 Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi with a 123BHP remap
x 45

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by BenC5HDi »

Doesn't mention anything about my car being roadworthy on my Direct Line policy....

How would one insure a car that was off the road?

It's an offence to use a vehicle with a dangerous fault, whether it has an MOT or not .. I. E. If you're using a car with six months MOT left that's dangerous, it's still an offence..

A car that's just failed an MOT isn't necessarily dangerous or unroadworthy. This is what the legal position hinges on. Your car isn't dangerous or unroadworthy if it failed on an airbag light on, or a sidelight bulb duff for example.

If your insurance was invalidated by such things, I've seen at least 10 people driving with invalid insurance this evening.....



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by Stickyfinger »

The 3rd party aspect my payout, but I bet they would not pay for your new face if the AirBag was a known fault and you had a smash
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Like the 1.266 Million European Toyotas being recalled for faulty airbags that could deploy abnormally in a crash - no car is 100% safe and nobody can be expected to know if it is safe under normal circumstances. Tyre blowouts is another one - so unless your car's the silver hornet who's to say? :-D

Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by bobins »

BenC5HDi wrote:Doesn't mention anything about my car being roadworthy on my Direct Line policy....

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Whilst I appreciate that car insurances vary, and not everyone gets the same policies, the current Direct Line car insurance policy wording requires:

6. Taking care of your car
You and any person who is covered by this policy must:
• make sure your car is roadworthy;

It's under 'General Conditions' Section 6.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by Paul-R »

Ah, roadworthy. So is a blown sidelamp bulb, which would not even show up during the day, to be classed as making a car unroadworthy? It would cause an MOT failure, of course.

Just askin', like.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
BenC5HDi
Not Mike
Posts: 588
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 20:21
Location: Around Berkshire
My Cars: '07 Peugeot 207 1.4 "Sport" (Ha!)
'04 Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi with a 123BHP remap
x 45

Re: RE: Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by BenC5HDi »

Paul-R wrote:Ah, roadworthy. So is a blown sidelamp bulb, which would not even show up during the day, to be classed as making a car unroadworthy? It would cause an MOT failure, of course.

Just askin', like.
Of course it wouldn't make it unroadworthy. That's the point I'm making :)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
User avatar
Stickyfinger
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 10411
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
Location: Somset my lovleee
My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally
x 1280
Contact:

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by Stickyfinger »

BUT, that is your view, I wonder what the views of the insurance company legals would be if the saw a chance of a non payout ? ......£1/1p they would make life difficult for you
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by CitroJim »

Stickyfinger wrote:......£1/1p they would make life difficult for you
You know they will... Blood out of a stone and all that :evil:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by bobins »

I've been trying to find out what would make a car 'unroadworthy'. Although it's fairly straightforward:

"A motor vehicle is unroadworthy if it is in such a condition that its use on the road would
involve a danger of injury to any person including driver, passenger(s), other road users
or pedestrians. The danger may be caused by, amongst other things; worn suspension,
worn steering joints, defective brakes or corrosion of load bearing parts of the vehicle."

......It doesn't seem to end up being that straightforward.

It is up to the driver / person in charge of the vehicle to ensure it is roadworthy.
It is up to a DVSA examiner / authorised constable / other entitled person to tell you it isn't roadworthy.
It'd, probably, be ultimately up to the courts / legal system to decide who was right in each and every case. There are procedures in place to appeal an 'unroadworthiness' declaration from the DVSA, but - as with most things in life - in the end it'd be for the courts to decide if you wanted to take it that far.

A good indication of a roadworthy vehicle would be one that met the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations and/or Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.
An MOT pass does not mean a car is roadworthy.
"An MOT certificate is only an indication that the car was fit to pass the test on the day it was examined and does not indicate the car is roadworthy.
An MOT test does not cover every aspect of the roadworthiness of a vehicle and the car may have deteriorated since it was tested."
http://www.southglos.gov.uk/documents/T ... rticle.pdf

If it came to a prosecution against you, a good defence that you thought the car was roadworthy might be: "I only got it MOT'd yesterday" - Although, as above, an MOT is not proof that a car is roadworthy, but it may be helpful to show that you thought the car was roadworthy.
A good case against you that your car was unroadworthy might be the fact that it failed an MOT the previous day, even though you still had time remaining on the previous years unexpired MOT.

Them's my views, and they're worth exactly what you paid for them :)


I would - genuinely - welcome sensible comment and expansion of the points mentioned above.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
BenC5HDi
Not Mike
Posts: 588
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 20:21
Location: Around Berkshire
My Cars: '07 Peugeot 207 1.4 "Sport" (Ha!)
'04 Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi with a 123BHP remap
x 45

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by BenC5HDi »

One the one occasion I got stopped for having a bulb out, I was given a ticket and told to fix it and get it stamped by the local MOT station within a period of time (10 days?) And go back to the police station. I'd take that as meaning the car wasn't unroadworthy or dangerous to others.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by bobins »

BenC5HDi wrote:One the one occasion I got stopped for having a bulb out, I was given a ticket and told to fix it and get it stamped by the local MOT station within a period of time (10 days?) And go back to the police station. I'd take that as meaning the car wasn't unroadworthy or dangerous to others.
A good point, and one for the courts to decide :rofl2:

Seriously though ! the DVSA / authorised constables(AC) have discretion, it would seem:
"Where examiners find on a vehicle roadworthiness defects not serious enough to warrant prohibition, they will advise the user/ owner using a Vehicle Inspection Notice. This notice is advisory only and does not in itself prevent further use of the vehicle.
Even if not prohibitable, some of the defects may mean that the vehicle is unroadworthy and does not comply with the law. Continued use of a vehicle issued with either a Delayed Prohibition or a Vehicle Inspection Notice listing advisory defect(s) risks prosecution under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations or Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations and so it will be in the user’s interest to repair defects as soon as practicable after they are noticed."

There's a whole host of reasons why the DVSA / AC don't have to prohibit a vehicle (for being unroadworthy or dangerous to others) on the spot:

"A delayed prohibition allows continued use of the vehicle until the prohibition comes into force. The period of delay on prohibitions will reflect
-the severity and number of defects observed,
- their significance in road safety and environmental terms,
-any risk presented by continued use of the vehicle,
while taking into account the operational and financial implications for the operator."

Further, and rather tedious 8-[ , reading can be had here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... efects.pdf

Which has come from here - Categorisation of roadworthiness defects:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... of-defects
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
BenC5HDi
Not Mike
Posts: 588
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 20:21
Location: Around Berkshire
My Cars: '07 Peugeot 207 1.4 "Sport" (Ha!)
'04 Berlingo Multispace 2.0 HDi with a 123BHP remap
x 45

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by BenC5HDi »

I think if it's suspension, brakes or steering, you'd be screwed. As long as those items are safe, it's not really going to pose a danger to others.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5697
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5
x 2871

Re: C5 in for MOT tomorrow

Post by bobins »

BenC5HDi wrote:I think if it's suspension, brakes or steering, you'd be screwed. As long as those items are safe, it's not really going to pose a danger to others.
Total headlamp failure whilst driving at night ?
Driving with a smashed windscreen ?
No stop lamps / electrics to your rear lamps ? (as opposed brakes not working).
Passenger door not shutting ? (i.e flapping around in the breeze)
Bonnet missing ?
Drivers seat not bolted down ?
OK, some of those might seem extreme and stretching a point a bit, and yes - suspension, steering and brakes are the main ones, but there are myriad reasons that a DVSA / AC exmainer may deem your car is a danger to others. :(
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
Post Reply