Glow Plugs Annihilate 2.0HDi Xsara Picasso

[NewcastleFalcon]

.....Now is this just Star Trekesq thinking (boldly going where no man has been before), or just a clutch at straws?

Bearing in mind that all I want to do is come to the right conclusion as to whether to scrap my lovely Picasso, or ressurrect it depending on what damage has been caused by the glow plug tip when it dropped into cylinder no 4.

Can't find a thread anywhere of anyone who has actually removed a Cylinder head in situ on a 2.0HDi, and RichardW's info on it being a 12.5Hr job with subframe and turbo removed doesn't fill me with enthusiasm for attempting it myself, and totally uneconomic to get it done by a garage.

So what does the FCF think of this approach

The question....is this a possibility?

If you take the sump off is it possible to remove piston number 4 from the bottom, shine a torch up the bore and see what damage may have been done to the top end?

Regards Neil

[Xantidote]

Hello Neil,

I'm expecting the more professional members will give you a more precise & helpful answer than I can. In the past, I've had the pistons out of a Moggy 1000, a V6 Ford 3 litre Essex engine, and a BX with the 1.7 turbo diesel engine, and i don't think in any case would it have been possible to remove the pistons other than in an upwards direction. Pistons have con rods attached which makes it more difficult, and something will probably foul the crankshaft. I recall some pistons actually have cut-outs in the bottom of their skirts so as not to hit the crankshaft's journals.

Even if you were successful, you'd struggle to see all at the top of the cylinders as the crankshaft would be in the way, unless you had something like a fancy optical "scope" for looking into cavity walls etc. Not sure you'd be able to check the valves are seating 100%, and you might have to resort to a compression test.

Good luck whatever route you finally go down

[NewcastleFalcon]

Good luck whatever route you finally go down

Thanks Martin,

I was just trying to think laterally a bit, but at the end of the day to properly ressurect the car the head would most likely have to come off anyway to get rid of the remaining glow-plug tip on cylinder number 2. The points you make regarding removing piston from the bottom are probably spot on. Its not exactly a routine maintenance job removing a piston, and if you are contemplating doing it very probably the engine is out, and you are doing a major rebuild, and removing one from the bottom just wouldn't be done.

I can't quite convince myself to give up on it just yet. I was hoping for at least 100,000 miles out of it, and like I say it suits our needs well.

Regards Neil

[bobins]

Clutching at straws here - and I admit to knowing naff-all about access possibilities to the combustion space........ and you've probably got more chance of winning the lottery than being able to do this, but presumably there's no way to have a furtle around in the combustion space via the injector hole with one of these ?



http://www.amazon.co.uk/600mm-FLEXIBLE- ... B00439FN06

[jgra1]

injector hole is quite big I think.. and they are easy to remove.. a magnet may also do the trick?

[NewcastleFalcon]

......have a furtle around in the combustion space via the injector hole with one of these ?

injector hole is quite big I think.. and they are easy to remove.. a magnet may also do the trick?

Thanks for the posts they have got me thinking....yes might as well give that a go...nothing to lose! I like the idea of the "special tools" being under £3!

I'll consut "Haynes" at the very least, but never removed the pipework on an engine with a high pressure fuel rail before....any precautions necessary to avoid extermely high pressure jets of diesel doing damage? and do you always have to replace any pipes you disturb?

Much appreciated

Regards Neil

[jgra1]

I changed my injector Neil. nothing untoward happened then re fuel pressure.. and I didn't bother at all with pipe replacement .. I may still have the old injector somewhere (it was a few years ago) but from memory its all pretty straightforward..

if you find the tip, it may only be an indication of the wars it's been in.. it could be creased and mashed.. I cant really see how something that big rattling around at high revs cant cause a bit of mayhem.. but you never know, if removed maybe car will run for ages more with a drop of oil every month..

edit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-307-6 ... SwUuFW0vPj

they could be like these.. quite long but a small (ground down) telescopic magnet may get into the CC?

these could be useful.. the wonder of smart phones! just no ability too look about really.. for that you pay a bit more..*
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5M-Waterpro ... Sw7hRWOcAE

*although a 'side audition' is supplied lol.. looks like a mirror to look sideways.. a side show in fact

[NewcastleFalcon]

these could be useful.. the wonder of smart phones! ....

More good stuff..thanks. As for smart phones currently they are largely passing me by as I continue to use a 10 year old phone I picked up from the Starship Enterprise!



Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

I have drawn pretty much a blank on the good old internet, no decent videos, or how-to's with pics, for removing a cylinder head from a Xsara Picasso 2.0HDi 8-Valve, or from the same engine in other vehicles.

I conclude from this that the only time a cylinder head is removed from a 2.0HDi, is when these vehicles are prematurely scrapped, and any access dificulties can be removed with an angle grinder or oxy acetylene torch! Plenty second hand ones on e-bay.

Had to smile at the sound advice from my blue cover Haynes Manual on the subject

.

Note....Due to the limited access at the rear of the engine, it is impossible to remove the cylinder head with the engine in the car unless considerable additional dismantling is carried out first (eg removal of the front suspension subframe and related components...

So stage 1 of the recommended procedure is

Remove the engine/transmission assembly as described in section 4.

Of course as you would expect this involves even more dismantling including at 31....remove both driveshafts and 32 remove the front suspension subframe.....

Haven't found any first hand accounts of doing the cylinder-head removal job on this engine. Not surprised really.

Conclusion........don't fancy it at all, many expensive hours at a garage to get to the stage of seeing whether the head/bore/piston/valves etc are salvagable, reluctantly the scrapyard beckons.

Regards Neil

[jgra1]

wow...

Sorry Neil.. what a drama.
I don't have anything useful to add, but you have my sympathies..
John

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks John.....its a question for me of time and effort. In the past I have tackled such jobs and ressurected a couple of my cars, for many more tens of thousands of miles. But there is no doubt it would take me ages, and access in the Picasso bodyshell is impossibly poor to the rear of the engine, when compared to the XUD in a Xantia.

I can get a newer replacement for the price I paid and there are loads to choose from, and I would defniitely have another Picasso..but this time....I don't intend to drive into floodwater, and...I will probably never attempt to remove the glowplugs!

Really, to escape the nagging doubt factor I should as a first job renew all 4 glow plugs, but that may just be a lesson in "how to kill a car in one easy lesson!".

Regards Neil

[Hell Razor5543]

Thanks John.....its a question for me of time and effort. In the past I have tackled such jobs and ressurected a couple of my cars, for many more tens of thousands of miles. But there is no doubt it would take me ages, and access in the Picasso bodyshell is impossibly poor to the rear of the engine, when compared to the XUD in a Xantia.

I can get a newer replacement for the price I paid and there are loads to choose from, and I would defniitely have another Picasso..but this time....I don't intend to drive into floodwater, and...I will probably never attempt to remove the glowplugs!

Really, to escape the nagging doubt factor I should as a first job renew all 4 glow plugs, but that may just be a lesson in "how to kill a car in one easy lesson!".

Regards Neil

Well, one suggestion might be to buy the car from a garage, and get them to change the glow plugs as part of the deal!

[BenC5HDi]

Or simply not bother about the glow plugs as they don't do much in the HDI anyway. I know the ones in my Berlingo with the same engine have been duff for years..

[Gibbo2286]

I have drawn pretty much a blank on the good old internet, no decent videos, or how-to's with pics, for removing a cylinder head from a Xsara Picasso 2.0HDi 8-Valve, or from the same engine in other vehicles.

I conclude from this that the only time a cylinder head is removed from a 2.0HDi, is when these vehicles are prematurely scrapped, and any access dificulties can be removed with an angle grinder or oxy acetylene torch! Plenty second hand ones on e-bay.

Had to smile at the sound advice from my blue cover Haynes Manual on the subject

.

Note....Due to the limited access at the rear of the engine, it is impossible to remove the cylinder head with the engine in the car unless considerable additional dismantling is carried out first (eg removal of the front suspension subframe and related components...

So stage 1 of the recommended procedure is

Remove the engine/transmission assembly as described in section 4.

Of course as you would expect this involves even more dismantling including at 31....remove both driveshafts and 32 remove the front suspension subframe.....

Haven't found any first hand accounts of doing the cylinder-head removal job on this engine. Not surprised really.

Conclusion........don't fancy it at all, many expensive hours at a garage to get to the stage of seeing whether the head/bore/piston/valves etc are salvagable, reluctantly the scrapyard beckons.

Regards Neil

I've done a couple of head removals on the 2.0L HDI but only in C5s so I don't know about the other models. the biggest problem I had was an one engine it was almost impossible to remove the head bolt, they were so tight that a couple of the torx heads sheared off and left the remainder in place, the only way to get beyond that was to grind through the wide shoulder bit of the bolt with a ball shaped carborundum wheel, very difficult with the engine sloping backwards.
I got them out in the end but at the expense of the head.

As for pistons coming out of the bottom they won't, even with the crankshaft out.

Now when I were a lad I used to take pistons out the bottom way on old Ford 8s and Morris 8s, re ring them and put them back, it was common practice, the Ford 10s etc. had to come out the top, the pistons were too wide to come past the crank webs. Hillman ohv engines were the worst, you had to push the piston up out, remove the gudgeon pin and drop the con rod out the bottom, quite a juggle to reassemble if you were on your own.

[Gibbo2286]

I have drawn pretty much a blank on the good old internet, no decent videos, or how-to's with pics, for removing a cylinder head from a Xsara Picasso 2.0HDi 8-Valve, or from the same engine in other vehicles.

I conclude from this that the only time a cylinder head is removed from a 2.0HDi, is when these vehicles are prematurely scrapped, and any access dificulties can be removed with an angle grinder or oxy acetylene torch! Plenty second hand ones on e-bay.

Had to smile at the sound advice from my blue cover Haynes Manual on the subject

.

Note....Due to the limited access at the rear of the engine, it is impossible to remove the cylinder head with the engine in the car unless considerable additional dismantling is carried out first (eg removal of the front suspension subframe and related components...

So stage 1 of the recommended procedure is

Remove the engine/transmission assembly as described in section 4.

Of course as you would expect this involves even more dismantling including at 31....remove both driveshafts and 32 remove the front suspension subframe.....

Haven't found any first hand accounts of doing the cylinder-head removal job on this engine. Not surprised really.

Conclusion........don't fancy it at all, many expensive hours at a garage to get to the stage of seeing whether the head/bore/piston/valves etc are salvagable, reluctantly the scrapyard beckons.

Regards Neil

I've done a couple of head removals on the 2.0L HDI but only in C5s so I don't know about the other models. the biggest problem I had was on one engine it was almost impossible to remove the head bolts, they were so tight that a couple of the torx heads sheared off and left the remainder in place, the only way to get beyond that was to grind through the wide shoulder bit of the bolt with a ball shaped carborundum wheel, very difficult with the engine sloping backwards.
I got them out in the end but at the expense of the head.

As for pistons coming out of the bottom they won't, even with the crankshaft out.

Now when I were a lad I used to take pistons out the bottom way on old Ford 8s and Morris 8s, re ring them and put them back, it was common practice, the Ford 10s etc. had to come out the top, the pistons were too wide to come past the crank webs. Hillman ohv engines were the worst, you had to push the piston up out, remove the gudgeon pin and drop the con rod out the bottom, quite a juggle to reassemble if you were on your own.