Citroen Relay 2.2 HDI not charging

[Big_Al]

Hi All

I have a problem with my Citroen Relay 2.2 HDI 2005, its not charging!

Have installed a new battery, new alternator, new main earth lead plus installed another new earth lead going from engine block to battery earth point below battery and still it won’t charge.

Below are some readings I’ve taken to try and work out whats going on:-


Test 1
Battery + to – terminals, ignition off, no load = 12.62 volts (for reference)

Start van
Battery + to – terminals = 11.70 volts
Battery – terminal to alternator output “B+” stud = 12.12 volts
Battery – terminal to alternator case = 0.0 volts
Battery + terminal to alternator output “B+” stud = 0.0 volts

Test 2
Battery + to – terminals, ignition off, no load = 12.40 volts (for reference)

Alternator body to alternator “D+” stud = 0.0 volts
Battery – terminal to alternator “D+” stud = 0.0 volts
Body earth point to alternator “D+” stud = 0.0 volts

Ignition On (2nd click) engine not running
Alternator body to alternator “D+” stud = 0.02 volts
Battery – terminal to alternator “D+” stud = 0.02 volts

Now why I was doing this I noticed two things, the battery light on the dash is not lighting up when the ignition is turned, but not started, however all the other warning lights are working as they should. The interior light is not as bright as it should be when the door is opened but could just be me.

I have checked/renewed all earth straps in the engine bay I’ve cleaned up the battery terminals but I still cant work out what’s the problem

Any ideas ???????

[xantia_v6]

Some alternators need the current through the warning light bulb to get the initial excitation to start charging.

If your alternator has a warning light wire, there should be a volt or two on it when the ignition is switched on and the engine not running. You could try connecting a temporary "warning Light" bulb direct from the battery + ti the warning light terminal on the alternator and see if that lights up.

It is also possible that your replacement alternator is faulty...

[Peter.N.]

As above. You should have about 14.4 volts across the battery if the alternator is charging.

Peter

[wheeler]

it wasn't a Euro car parts RTX alternator by any chance was it ?

[Hell Razor5543]

This might sound silly, but I am not taking the p1ss. Is the battery light blown? As some alternators use this bulb as part of the exciter circuit (whatever that is; I have no idea), if it is blown the alternator won't charge the battery.

[Peter.N.]

The exciter current is to magnetise the rotor, once its started charging its self sustaining. So if the bulb has gone (unlikely) or has become disconnected (more likely) it wont charge.

Peter

[Big_Al]

Ok have looked at the dash and the battery warning light is not coming on, so will take the instrument panel out to check bulb.

Have checked "D+" terminal which feeds back to warning light on dash, Ignition On (2nd click) engine not running, Alternator body (earth) to alternator “D+” stud = 0.02 volts and Battery – terminal to alternator “D+” stud = 0.02 volts so looks like this may be the problem not enough volts to the "D+" stud.

I take it I should see 12 volts positive going to the "D+" stud with ignition on (2nd click) engine not running and once engine starts the 12 volts positive going to the "D+" stud will go to 0.00 volts

Why I have the instrument panel out does anyone know if a relay or fuse is incorporated in the circuit going to the "D+" Stud on alternator

[Big_Al]

Have taken out instrument cluster to check bulb and it looks like its a sealed unit, have taken a look between the board and the warning lights look to be LEDs soldered to the board, so could be ones blown.

Checked connectors / board and nothing looks to be corroded.

Anyone got a wiring diagram?

[Peter.N.]

I don't know but I don't think an LED would pass enough current to energise the alternator. If you momentarily connect the live alternator terminal to the warning light one it should start it charging. I will see if I can find out how the circuit works.

Failing that, if you connect a small 12v bulb between an ignition switched 12v supply and the alternator terminal it should work ok.

Peter

[RichardW]

Al, what's the RP number of the van? I might be able to get a diagram for you with that.

Scrub that...it wants the VIN!

[Big_Al]

Hi Richard, have just PM you

[RichardW]

Here you go:



Pretty simple!

The feed is on pin 12 of the centre of the 3 connectors on the rear of panel. The output to the alt is on pin 1 of the 12 pin connector which should be on the right as you look it. F37 appears to be in the in-cab fuse board, but it controls other things as well, so I suspect that is OK.

[Big_Al]

Richard fantastic help in supplying the above, will start looking at it this weekend.

Regarding F37 which fuse is it, I know this sounds silly but the numbering on the fuse plate or lack of it dose not make things exactly straight forward.

Before everyone says it I've checked every single fuse on the van, fuse F37 I'm interested in. I've also had the new alternator checked independently and seen it running with 14+ volts

Do you know what else runs on this F37 fuse?

I've had problems before with another manufacturer when another unit in the car was causing a problem but it linked back to the same earth and fuse and caused problems with another unit in the car.

[Barkercs]

Hi. I know this is an old post but did you every find a solution? I’m having the same issues.

[wheeler]

Probably best off starting a new thread with more info about your specific vehicle & any checks you have already done or components that have been replaced.
The above is for a mk 2 Relay but if yours is a mk3 this has a completely different electrical setup & much of the above wont even apply to the mk3 post 2007 models.
We really need to know your specific vehicle details.