C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

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lenny1972
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by lenny1972 »

jgra1 wrote: 28 Apr 2016, 08:25 Lenny did you ever get anywhere with handbrake re calibration ?
John


Hi, I've bought a Diagbox tool (from china) , I bought a second-hand EPB (a new one costs about 1200 €) and I asked a Citroen Repair Center to install it.
After the installation, in manual mode now the parking brake work as expected but no way to make it working in automatic mode (it always produce two errors: "Parking Brake Fault" and "Hill-Holder Fault").
The strange think is that with the engine on in manual mode you can activate and deactivate the parking brake (a number of times that you want) but when for example you activate the parking brake and then switch off the engine and the insert back the key in the car it shows the errors ("Parking Brake Fault" and "Hill-Holder Fault") and you cannot deactivate the parking brake (just the emergency "manual" procedure works). Otherwise you have to wait 3 or 4 minutes without the key in the car (probably there is an automatic timeout after 3 or 4 minutes that erase all the errors in the memory) and then you can deactivate the parking brake. I suppose the second-hand parking brake I installed is not recognized by the car BSI this is probably due to the current configuration inside the EPB (that probably worked with the old car it was installed in).

Below the EPB info of my original EPB and the second-hand one:
Original EPB:
PSA 9687473180
HW: F08 SW:F08
EPB DE
10.2202-0115.4

Second-hand EPB:
PSA 9874350580
HW: F07/2 SW:07/1
EPB DE
10.2202-0130.4
I asked the Citroen Repair Center (that then installed it) to check if the second-hand EPB was compatible with my car (I provided them with the car VIN) and they say that it was. Can someone out there double check it or give me some advice in order to make the new part be recognized/accepted by my car?

John, for what concerns the EPB calibration procedure with the Diagbox tool (in the EPB section, "Repair" section) you can calibrate it without particular problem.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Do you have the VIN of your car and the VIN of the donor car? I will check compatibility.
While you are doing that I'll check the info on the system regarding the calibration.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Right, the EPB is controlled by the ESP ECU and the system has to be recalibrated if removed or refitted. This is done via Diagbox, following the procedure described in the programme.

Given that this system is highly integrated into the vehicle utilising the BSI, the Engine Management and ABS / ESP systems, there are a huge number of faults and backup modes that the system can enter. The ESP system is the 'Master' controller and the EPB ECU the 'slave' in the system. In the advent of a particular fault / faults the system can transfer control back to the EPB ECU for emergency stopping for example, without ESP control.

So you need to use Diagbox to undertake the EPB repair / reconnection / recalibration procedure depending on what it is called.

I would also ensure that the ESP ECU has the correct configuration parameters for the EPB - as replacing the unit may have upset the system now that there is a different EPB in the vehicle.
X7 Parking Brak A.PNG
  • "C": Electric parking brake locked (Operational).
    "D": Electric parking brake unlocked.
    "g" Manual release mechanism.
    "m" Hook.
As you can see, once manual release has been triggered, the secondary cables need to be reconnected:

Back-up mechanical system for manual release

The splined shaft is solid with the release mechanism "g", linked with the rear right secondary cable by the hook "m". Pulling on the back-up mechanical control for manual release of the parking brake separates the hook "m" from the manual release mechanism "g", so releasing the forces transmitted to the brake calipers by the secondary cables.

Following release of the electric parking brake by means of the manual release mechanism, the rear brake secondary cables must be reconnected. The reconnection procedure is carried out by the electric parking brake ECU at the request of the user or of the ESP.

During the reconnection procedure, the electric parking brake ECU controls the motor in the maximum release direction to bring the splined shaft to its stop. The hook "m" hooks onto the manual release mechanism "g", the rear secondary cables are attached again.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by lenny1972 »

Thanks for the tips and suggestions you're giving me.
Since the emergency manual procedure has been done several time by myself and I've never reconnected the secondary cables I've got - first of all - to check it in order to see its current state and if it need to be re-connected. Sincerely I didn't see in the EPB repair section menu any option to "re-connect" the secondary cables :(
I'm wondering if this option will be within the ESP repair menu (instead of the EPB section)....?!?!
Can you give me some advice?
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by lenny1972 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 20 Sep 2018, 16:05 Do you have the VIN of your car and the VIN of the donor car? I will check compatibility.
While you are doing that I'll check the info on the system regarding the calibration.

Goodmorning Mark, first of all I want to tank you a lot for all the help you've gave me so far.
Below the VIN of my car and of the donor one:
My car VIN --> VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Donor car VIN --> VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

The Citroen Repair Center already said me that the EPB of the donor car (before buying it) was suitable for my car. I hope your check will have the same result :roll:
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so although these are 2 completely different cars the Electronic Handbrake is the same part (470210 now superseded with replacement part 470214).

So first of all you can try the manual reconnection procedure to see if that works:
  • Get in the car and close the doors.
  • Start the engine
  • Pull the electronic parking brake control lever up and hold it there.
  • This should trigger the cable reconnection process.
  • The EPB light should start to flash on the control.
  • It will start to initiate a maximum release of the parking brake - allowing the cables to be reconnected by the system.
  • Then it will start an 'application' cycle and apply the handbrake as normal.
  • When it has finished, you can let go.
Try this and see how you get on.

If successful, this should allow the ESP system to take over and become the 'Master' and allow the normal functions to operate like Hill Start Assist and Emergency Dynamic Braking for example - or at least normal application and release of the handbrake. :)
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by lenny1972 »

Great!
Very simple procedure. I'll give it a try as son as I can and I'll let you know
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by lenny1972 »

Here I am.
So I've tried the manual reconnection procedure but the problem is still present :|
When I've pulled and hold the control at some time the EPB light on the control flash for one time and on the main panel a message showing the the parking brave was set to the maximum force appeared. At this point the parking brake was in the activated state, but not any automatic procedure started. So I had to deactivate the parking brake by myself.
Now the error messages still appear ("Parking Brake Fault" and "Hill-Holder Fault"). I can anyway activate and deactivate the EPB manually.

I've also made another global test with the DIAGBOX and it gave me some errors both in the EPB Section (in italian is calle FSE) and in the ESP Section.

I attached some screenshots of the DIAGBOX listing all the errors detected.

Global test results (FSE is the italian for EPB)
global test outcome.jpg
EPB errors list
EPB errors listing.jpg
ESP errors list
ESP errors listing.jpg
I hope it can help you to better understand the situation.

Thanks a lot
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok leave it with me - the first screen shot is just saying there is no communication with the directional headlights or the multifunction screen ECUs. That should have nothing to do with the parking brake - however, I do need to ask if you have replaced/ changed / upgraded the car audio system / head unit?

I will study the other errors and report back shortly.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by Michel »

Hi Marc, have you got the same info for a 2008 Grand Picasso? ...

My EPB simply doesn't work and the brake is half-activated! It was binding after new pads and sticking caliper so I went to recalibrate it , it went through the procedure in Diagbox and now all I get ESP fault and Handbrake fault. Nothing happen at all when I press the handbrake button. I can release and apply the brake with the actuator tests in Diagbox
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, sorry it has taken me a while to get these together, I've been a little busy today. All these codes have a common reference - ESP ECU. As I mentioned earlier this plays an integral role in the operation of the EPB. As you can see from the diagnostic tables below, lack of Automatic functions including Hill Start are common when there is a fault. Some of the other faults can be caused by the communication errors. Have you changed any parameters anywhere for anything else (however small or insignificant you may think they are? Have you changed anything not related to the parking brake? A small change can affect the vehicle if the parameter is not relevant to this model - as the BSI is shared across PSA vehicles.

Looking at both the VIN numbers of your car and the donor car - none of these had directional lighting (Xenons), yet the diagnostic screen you have in the first picture indicated it is trying to communicate with the ECU - this should not happen. I suspect that the BSI has been configured incorrectly, because the BSI is looking for an ECU that it has been told is there, but is not. This tells me that the Head Unit and / or the multifunction screen has possibly been changed, since these have their own ECUs and they retain the parameters from the donor vehicles.
Fault CodeU2118
After sales description of the fault codeFault in the reception of the partial triggering message by the built-in systems interface (BSI):Coherence
Description of the diagnosticsOn a partial wake-up request, the frame is invalid or absent
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsIgnition on
Conditions of disappearance of the fault-
Down-grade modes if fault presentNo back-up mode
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a" : Not on
- "b" : Not on
- "c" : Not on
Main customer complaints likelySwitching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake applies itself unexpectedly
The hill start assist is not working
Suspect areasElectric parking brake
CAN network
ESP (electronic stability control)
Fault CodeU1108
After sales description of the fault codeNo communication with the engine management ECU fault: No signal
Description of the diagnosticsThe engine management ECU is confirmed absent
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsIgnition on
Conditions of disappearance of the fault-
Down-grade modes if fault presentNo back-up mode
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a": Not on
- "b": Not on
- "c": Not on
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake applies itself unexpectedly
The hill start assist is not working
Suspect areasEngine ECU
Fault CodeU1213
After sales description of the fault codeFault - absence of communication with the stability control (ESP) ECU: Value received incorrect
Description of the diagnosticsThe ESP ECU sends out data that is invalid or information that is too short
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsIgnition on
Conditions of disappearance of the faultReception of 3 consecutive items of valid information
Down-grade modes if fault presentPossibility 1
- Deactivation of automatic mode
- Ignition on: The electrically controlled parking brake releases if the button is not held
- Ignition off: The electrically controlled parking brake releases if you hold the button for less than 3 seconds

Possibility 2
- Deactivation of the hill start assistance
- Dynamic braking by the electric parking brake
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a" : lit
- "b" : lit
- "c" : lit
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake applies itself unexpectedly
The hill start assist is not working
Suspect areasBrake pedal switch
Electronic stability control (ESP)

Fault CodeU1118
After sales description of the fault codeFault: absence of communication with the Built-in Systems Interface (BSI) : No signal
Description of the diagnosticsThe BSI is detected absent
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsIgnition on
Conditions of disappearance of the fault-
Down-grade modes if fault presentNo back-up mode
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp;- "a" : Not on;- "b" : Not on;- "c" : Not on
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
The hill start assist is not working
Suspect areasBuilt-in systems interface

Fault CodeU2000
After sales description of the fault codeFault - main triggering status word reception anomaly: Data invalid
Description of the diagnosticsInformation too short
Missing info
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsIgnition on
Conditions of disappearance of the fault-
Down-grade modes if fault presentNo back-up mode
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a": Not on
- "b": Not on
- "c": Not on
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
The hill start assist is not working
Suspect AreasBuilt-in systems interface
The lamps referred to above are:
EPB Messages.PNG
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Michel wrote: 23 Sep 2018, 18:42 Hi Marc, have you got the same info for a 2008 Grand Picasso? ...

My EPB simply doesn't work and the brake is half-activated! It was binding after new pads and sticking caliper so I went to recalibrate it , it went through the procedure in Diagbox and now all I get ESP fault and Handbrake fault. Nothing happen at all when I press the handbrake button. I can release and apply the brake with the actuator tests in Diagbox
Do you have any codes Mike? There are probably 70+ faults with these, but would be happy to see what I have - trouble is as you can see from my previous post - a lot of the symptoms from the user end are very similar, but the causes can be diverse. Throw any you have this way and I'll see what there is.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by Michel »

I'll stick it on Diagbox tomorrow evening Marc, it's too cold outside now!
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

lenny1972 wrote: 21 Sep 2018, 11:06 Great!
Very simple procedure. I'll give it a try as son as I can and I'll let you know

There’s one thing you can try. You can recalibrate the Parking Brake using Diagbox, as long as it can communicate with it.

Here is the procedure:

Connect Diagbox, either perform a ‘Test by ECU’ or a Global Test
When complete, locate the FSE or Electric Parking Brake from the list and activate
There should be a warning on the next page about ensuring the car is immobilised on a flat surface
Accept this and press the green tick to continue
On the next screen Choose REPAIR
On the next screen choose PACK REPAIR
On the next screen select REPLACEMENT PARTS
On the next screen select ELECTRIC PARKING BRAKE REPLACEMENT
On the next screen accept the information
On the next screen select ELECTRIC PARKING BRAKE CALIBRATION
Then follow the instructions, the tool will need to restart, just follow along and eventually it will say completed.

Let us know if this sorts it out.
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Re: C5 (X7) Electronic Parking Brake problem

Post by Michel »

That's what I did Marc, which @#$%ed it up!

(On my C4 Grand Picasso, yesterday. Not on a C5 X7)
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