suspension failure and lexia

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g4vyf
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suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

Good morning to all I am new on here so go easy lol. I have just changed my suspension to springs on my C4 Picasso Exclusive .My question is: If the "warning comes up on the dash telling me of "suspension failure" which no doubt it will. Does anything on the ecu cut in and limmit your speed to 5MPH or is it just a warning?? telling you NOT to drive above 5mph..I am going to purcahase Lexia3 to hopfully disable this warning but not sure how to do it ..I have asked this Question on another forum but only got sarhcastic remarks..sorry if this has already been covered but i'm new to this forum and havnt found any threads on it. I have been in touch with Citroen main agents and they refuse to disable the warning as they say that it alters the spec of the car..seems so strange though that citroen have now opted to replace bags with springs on the later models...thanks so much for a reply.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by Fake Concern »

Have you asked on the C4Owners.org forum? Generally very good I find. I have heard of some Citroen main agents changing the air for springs if the owner supplies the springs so I would try another Citroen agent. Sorry I don't know the Lexia answers (I've just bought my own, but not installed it yet!)
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by Stickyfinger »

I have see one conversion report (Honest John I think) which stated the owner "had to go to Citroen" to get the warning turned off......

So maybe you can with the Lexia then.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Just curious - how would the insurance company view this type of modification as this is surely a significant variation to the manufacturers design with this specific option / model? Not just the actual fitting of the springs, but all the associated things like the pneumatic setup having a different castor angle for the rear wheels, then all the interplay between the 2 ride height sensors / suspension ECU to BSI / ESP / ABS etc. As we know these key system ECUs all 'talk' together, so for example if we simply 'disabled' the suspension ECU, how do we know for sure what other settings would need to be altered and in doing so could we inadvertently affect another system / parameter?

What didn't you like about the pneumatic setup incidentally?
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by chinkostu »

Aren't the airbags a bit crap and they had a spate of them dying and taking the pump with them? I recall citroen having a massive backlog to get new ones
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

[quote="GiveMeABreak"]Just curious - how would the insurance company view this type of modification as this is surely a significant variation to the manufacturers design with this specific option / model? Not just the actual fitting of the springs, but all the associated things like the pneumatic setup having a different castor angle for the rear wheels, then all the interplay between the 2 ride height sensors / suspension ECU to BSI / ESP / ABS etc. As we know these key system ECUs all 'talk' together, so for example if we simply 'disabled' the suspension ECU, how do we know for sure what other settings would need to be altered and in doing so could we inadvertently affect another system / parameter? also see here http://www.eurocarcare.net/rear-suspens ... n-kit.html
Last edited by g4vyf on 10 Dec 2015, 06:32, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Got it. Done a bit of research in the interim and see the many issues with worn / perishing bags on these. They seem easy to replace, but reliability does seem an issue. Well at least we know they won't be replacing the hydractive C5 systems with these pneumatic systems as per my other thread. Given the potential safety issues that seem to be possible, I would expect the insurance company to knock off £30 not add it on!
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

Fake Concern wrote:Have you asked on the C4Owners.org forum? Generally very good I find. I have heard of some Citroen main agents changing the air for springs if the owner supplies the springs so I would try another Citroen agent. Sorry I don't know the Lexia answers (I've just bought my own, but not installed it yet!)
My local garage change mine for me (i supplied the springs) as citroen wouldnt do it ..no problems now all happy no more riding on the back axle
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

Stickyfinger wrote:I have see one conversion report (Honest John I think) which stated the owner "had to go to Citroen" to get the warning turned off......

So maybe you can with the Lexia then.
Citroen wont do it I tried 3 main dealers and they all said no can do ..so ive bought lexia and am going to do it myself ...just finding my way round the software at the mo.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by Stickyfinger »

Where is the sensor for the alarm ? I am sure some resistor of bridge would do it if it does not interact with other devices/system
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

Stickyfinger wrote:Where is the sensor for the alarm ? I am sure some resistor of bridge would do it if it does not interact with other devices/system
I was thinking of that idea myself but i opted for buying lexia and turning it off via the software (when i find out how to) troublie is the ecu serches for the suspension via th ecu which isnt there anymore and therefore throws the warning ..according to the powers that be it isnt a mot failure YET.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That's what I meant by inter-connectivity and how disabling the suspension ECU is now causing other issues with the BSI and the height corrector sensors etc.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by g4vyf »

GiveMeABreak wrote:That's what I meant by inter-connectivity and how disabling the suspension ECU is now causing other issues with the BSI and the height corrector sensors etc.
I have now changed to springs and there dont seem to be any issuse apart from sthe service warning that apears on the dash and the suspension warning (that disapeares anyway when engine is running which can be removed with Lexia (when i find out how to do it) In my opinion now ive got springs fitted it seems a better ride as the car has lost its "sway" and i find it hugs the road far better than the air bags ;;not only that but you dont get the worry of them or the ancillary components ..sensors /compressor etc ever going again. [-X
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I've been looking at a Citroen technician training manual on this system out of interest. They are obviously aware of the heat from the exhaust on the right air spring causing deterioration and porosity of the membrane leading to leaks - as this is clearly listed as a possible cause to investigate.
From what I can tell there are 2 height sensors - one on the central axle and one on the right. There is also a temperature sensor. Here is what I have found (I have translated as best I can so apologies in advance) :) :
  • Locking / unlocking / Opening / closing of the Doors will cause the BSI to awaken the Suspension ECU to check height from sensors and therefore command Suspension ECU to raise car if too low.
    The suspension ECU has an internal clock that allows it to:-
    make an autonomous check 30 mins after ignition off;
    and then autonomously every 72 hours
    In standby(?) mode the the system will correct the height where it has dropped more than 7mm in less than 48 hours at an outside temperature of 0 degrees or less; or
    more than 40mm regardless of temperature.
So apart from the points above, height correction also takes place on:
• engine running where height variation is ± 4 mm from H; o
• engine stopped, in case of variation in height of 10 mm / - 4 mm from H. o
The automatic correction is inhibited:
• for a vehicle speed lower than 10 km / h:
- If action on the manual switch (user command);
- If the main brake is active (motor startup requires the brake pedal is
operated);
- If a door is open (risk of hitting an obstacle during ascent or descent
vehicle, such as a pavement for a door or a door lintel tailgate);
• if the lateral acceleration experienced by the vehicle is greater than 0.5 m / s² for a speed
less than 80 km / h or greater than 0.3 m / s² for a speed higher than 80 km / h (this
not to degrade the anti-roll when cornering communicated by the two springs
tires);

• if the longitudinal acceleration experienced by the vehicle is greater than 0, 4 m / s²;
• when the parking brake (Power) is in clamping, (emergency brake
in case of speed greater than 10 km / h).

So apart from the suspension ECU, we can see there is input from vehicle speed monitoring systems and ESP - so it may not be as simple as disabling the suspension ECU alone. Caution I would be extremely careful of changing any of the critical factory set key BSI settings (especially any that require or ask for a pin code) as it has been known for people to 'brick' their BSI.
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Re: suspension failure and lexia

Post by GiveMeABreak »

@ g4vyf @
Great you have got this sorted and are happy with the result - I can see why the Citroen dealers (as mentioned in this thread by others) wont touch the reprogramming. It may require more than just the 'deletion' of the suspension ECU. If you can live with the dash warnings looks like the better and more cautious approach. :)
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