2.2HDi van engine (DW12 UTED)

[Old-Guy]

We're thinking about buying a motor-home. Our budget will only stretch to something built between 2002-2006 meaning a 2.0 or 2.2HDi engine in a 'Peugeot' Boxer chassis (the same as the Citroen Jumper). these are all built in the same plant as the similar (different engine range Ducato - generically refered to as the Sevel X244 models.

From what I been able to glean from the web (where most of the information refers to car engines), the HDi van engines of this age are genuine PSA engines (before the joint-production with Ford) but are a lot less powerful than the corresponding car engines with the same designation:

• The 2.0 HDi (DW10?) seems to be about 84PS - is this 8v and no inter-cooler?
  The 2.2 HDi (DW12 UTED?) is usually quoted as 100PS - 16v but no inter-cooler?

Can anyone reliably confirm/correct this information please? From the data I have, the 2.2 produces about 20% more power and 25% more torque than the 2.0, so are there any down-sides to the bigger engine?

[Bick]

I have a Relay (Jumper) 2.0hdi Mk2 which is what you seem to be looking for, as you say it is a Fiat shell, trim and electrics. The 2.0hdi info you have is correct but im not sure about the 2.2, are you sure its a Citroen engine and not the Ford, i know for sure its Ford 2006 onwards in the Mk3.

The 2.0hdi wont break any land speed records but it is unbelievable on fuel, easy 35mpg round the houses and 40-50mph on a run depending weather you are happy to do 65mph or 55mph!

[Old-Guy]

Thanks for the first hand info! We're going to hire a small 'van for a week before we commit ourselves, but the problem is that any hire 'van will almost certainly be post-2006 with a later and more powerful engine. 50-60mph touring on country roads is fine, but we shall do a lot of miles hacking up and down the M5 - boring when you've done it literally hundreds of times. Another consideration is that even a smallish motor-home weighs as much as a loaded van (an empty weight of 2.5T) - then add 40-50L of water; the same in fuel; gas bottles; 2 people, bedding, clothes, pots, pans, cutlery and crockery.

I've just looked at Relays on service.citroen
For the Relay II (X244), "2.0 HDi 90", "2.2 HDi (DW12 UTED)" and various FIAT engines (2.3-3.0) are listed.
For the Relay III (X250) from mid-2006, the DW12 was replaced by a range of Ford Puma engines in 100-150PS guise, while the previous 90PS DW10 was replaced by 110/130/163PS versions.

Any first hand experience of a 2.2HDi Relay II (or Boxer II) would much appreciated.

[Bick]

I'm not sure about the top speed of the 2.0hdi but mine will cruse at 80mph all day if you wish to do so but then the mpg will suffer and you will be back down to about 35ish but i dont know for sure as i rarely take it up that high.

[Peter.N.]

The 2.2 does produce more power than the 2.0. but uses disproportionately more fuel, if you can manage with the 2.0. it will be quite a bit cheaper to run.

Peter

[BX]

I don't know much about the 2.2 puma engine fitted to the 2006 onwards relay boxer ducato trio. However in the transit it didn't excel. Problems were probably ironed out in later vans. The pre 2006 FWD transit used a 2.0l engine. This was fairly bullet proof.
In the sevel vans, Boxer Relay Ducato, my favourite engine would be the 2.3 litre Fiat/Iveco/Sofim engine. Next would be the 2.0 litre Peugeot engine DW10 in either 8 or 16 valve format. These DW10 engines are well proven in both formats. I would be most familiar with both of them in the Suzuki Grand Vitara where many of them were worked hard towing cattle, sheep and horse boxes. The Expert/Dispatch/Scudo also used both varieties of DW10 and were pretty good. The Suzuki and the Sevel Nord vans changed to the 16 valve version in 2001 or 2002.

[wheeler]

OK this is based on the Relay models, I assume Pug & probably Fiat are the same.
The Ford PUMA engine was only available from the mk3 models onward.
On the Mk2 models the 2.0 HDi & the 2.2 HDi (DW12UTED) 4HY engine code are both 8v PSA engines. Don't think ive ever seen a 2.2 16v in a Relay. The 2.8 HDi is a Fiat SOFIM engine.

[Bick]

I don't know much about the 2.2 puma engine fitted to the 2006 onwards relay boxer ducato trio. However in the transit it didn't excel. Problems were probably ironed out in later vans. The pre 2006 FWD transit used a 2.0l engine. This was fairly bullet proof.
In the sevel vans, Boxer Relay Ducato, my favourite engine would be the 2.3 litre Fiat/Iveco/Sofim engine. Next would be the 2.0 litre Peugeot engine DW10 in either 8 or 16 valve format. These DW10 engines are well proven in both formats. I would be most familiar with both of them in the Suzuki Grand Vitara where many of them were worked hard towing cattle, sheep and horse boxes. The Expert/Dispatch/Scudo also used both varieties of DW10 and were pretty good. The Suzuki and the Sevel Nord vans changed to the 16 valve version in 2001 or 2002.

Hi BX you are right about the 2.2 2006 onwards being a Ford engine and not up to scratch. A mate of mine works for a Citroen dealer and he told me not to buy an early Mk3 Relay due to the engine problems. He said get the latest Mk2 2.0 hdi and to be honest he has been right so far its been a decent van but the best part by far is the engine.

[BX]

I should have mentioned that my favourite Fiat/Iveco/Sofim engine is actually the 2.3 multijet. It replaced the earlier 2.5. there is also the excellent 2.8 but I think that the 2.3 is the pick of the crop. It has sufficient power (up to130 BHP), good economy and is possibly even more indestructible (if that is possible) than the 2.0 HDI engine.

[Old-Guy]

Thank you everyone for clarifying which engines were used. I'm aware of problems with Transit engines around 2006-8. Price dictates pre-2006, as to DW10 v. DW12, it'll depend on what's available. Sadly, the models that we're looking at are all built on Pug rather than Fiat chassis and thus HDi engines.

[BX]

The engine description depends on the badge owner
On Peugeot/Citroen vans all direct injection diesels are labeled as HDI regardless of whither they are of PSA, or Fiat origin. Likewise Fiat call them all either JTD or multijet even if it is really a PSA HDI engine. In the vans produced from 1993 until 2006 the badge on the van did not necessarily determine the engine supplier. From 2006 on (mk3) the choice of engine was between Fiat or Ford. I have not seen an actual HDI engine in any of these.

[KP]

Based on the info from the cars fitted with the same engines but more highly tuned i would say the 2.0HDi is the best one to go for. They seem to last longer and you can always chip them for more grunt.

If it turns out the injectors or pump or turbo need swapping for more power then they are cheap enough and a few people on here have all the bits you would need.

Being in a van its probably best to make sure the intercooler is a decent size like the xantia sized ones and that the coolant is kept fresh, and brake fluid

[Old-Guy]

Being in a van its probably best to make sure the intercooler is a decent size like the xantia sized ones and that the coolant is kept fresh, and brake fluid

My understanding is that both the 2.0 DW10 and 2.2 DW12 as fitted to vans are 8-valve non-intercooled - which explains why they are rated at only 85 and 100 hp respectively. No doubt the PSA thinking at the time was that some vans get hammered - 150,000+ miles during the 3 year warranty wouldn't be unusual.

No doubt it would be possible to fit a car intercooler and open up the injection pump (not much point in doing one without the other).

Interestingly, all the small motorhomes of the model we're after (2002-2006) have averaged between 1,500 and 5,000 miles per year - even the highest mileage one has done a mere 47,000 miles. I shall be more concerned with evidence of adequate servicing than wear.

We're hiring a bigger 2/3 year-old 130hp FIAT-badged m'home over Christmas - that may be the acid test of the life-style; the 2.3 (Iveco) engine has lots of grunt without being outrageously thirsty - generally reckoned to be the nicest engine available.

[KP]

To be honest if there is an iveco engine option id go for that as they chip well and are designed for much more abuse than the dw engines are.

[Old-Guy]

To be honest if there is an iveco engine option id go for that as they chip well and are designed for much more abuse than the dw engines are.

Oh that it were possible. Sadly nobody seems to have built anything suitable on Ducato chassis! The only motorhome model that meets our requirements (size, layout, cost and age) was only ever built on Peugeot (badged) chassis. The acceptable compromise on age v. cost leads us to a 2002-2006 model and thus to a possible choice of DW10 or DW12.

The major design change/facelift for 2007-on saw the old DW engines replaced by PSA/Ford ZSD-422 units (whatever the power); vehicles of this age are well beyond our budget.

As an aside, I have been staggered at how slowly motorhomes depreciate - a small 2000 coach-built that originally cost around £35,000 is still worth £18-20,000! Oh, that an immaculate low-mileage Xantia of that age would fetch anything approaching 60% of it's original price!