C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

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olliewarwick1
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C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Hi All,

It's been a while since I've been on here, I used to own a Xantia, but my father still owns his 2001 C5 Hdi.

When there is a problem, he calls me. I've not looked at this myself and he lives a little way away, so I'm just looking for a few tips when I do go and see him (could be a little while)

He has said that his car is a real pain to start when it's hot, sometimes not starting at all. This is a consistent problem in as much as it happens every time it's hot (normal running temp). It can take quite a bit of cranking when cold, but it does always start eventually (unlike when hot) Secondly, it often feels down on power, but not all the time. Dad describes it as the turbo not kicking in. He's run injector cleaner through it a few times and it often goes on long runs (100 miles down the motorway) so I don't think it's DPF related.

Please could someone with a little more knowledge than myself give me some tips and pointers to start looking into?

Thanks,
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by SaabC5 »

Needs to be put on a Lexia. i'm betting on a failed injector. Does it idle roughly?
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by Stickyfinger »

where are you based

Oilieshire or Warwickshire ?

....maybe there is a local Lexia owner who can read the faults for you ?
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by Peter.N. »

I have had similar problems and it turned out to be the regulator on the HP diesel pump.

Peter

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-Hdi-C ... 1c5a8e3964
olliewarwick1
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Hi All,
Thanks for your responses. The car is in Herefordshire however, I'm based in Surrey. It would be easier for me to down near here but I'm sure my dad wouldn't be adverse to having it plugged into a lexia somewhere.
Dad's a Citroen fan so I was wondering whether it's worth purchasing a Lexia?
It doesn't idle brilliantly, so injector sounds possible. Are the injectors a pain to remove, I seem to remember the Xantia ones being a nightmare?
Thanks,
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Hi All,
Right the car went back to Citroen today, so I presume it went on a Lexia, and they couldn't find anything wrong even though it didn't start on them. It's second hand news but apparently the compression, the fuel pressure, the injectors and and the fuel pressure regulator are all fine. They are a little stumped.
Dad has just told me that the oil cap and dipstick do blow out, so presumably there is pressure in the bottom of the engine where there shouldn't be. However, the compression is fine so therefore it isn't the rings.

Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Hi All again,

Right so Citroen have now officially admitted defeat and they cannot find out what's wrong with it. Is there anyone that is up for a bit of a challenge.

Just to summarise: The car has trouble starting, especially when hot. This problem has been getting progressively worse over the last few months and now the car is basically unusable as it won't start at all when hot.
It doesn't idle particularly well anyway.
I don't think it's related but the car does blow out the dipstick and oil filler cap when running so presume this could be a breather tube?
Citroen have had the car on their diagnostics machine (whilst hot and not starting) and they cannot figure out why it is happening. They say the car has got good compression and the pressure at the injection pump is 300bar (I don't know if this is correct, just what they said)
They have apparently checked the injectors too although I'm not sure what method they used.
They've apparently checked the pressure regulator.

Does anyone have any other ideas? It's a shame because it's a pretty low mileage car that my dad enjoys driving so we don't want to get rid, but obviously the old boy needs something reliable.
Thanks in advance.
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Also, forgot to mention that their diagnostic machine (which I assume is a lexia) did not read any fault codes.
Thanks,
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Hi All,
So, to give you a bit of an update we replaced the fuel pressure regulator and that hasn't made any difference. Below is a copy of the invoice description from the garage. Can anyone more educated than me pick out anything else that I should be looking at?


"Put on Lexia Citroen Diagnostic;

Fault code read, intermediate turbo pressure fault. (this would not affect start up but is probably responsible for lack of power) readings on Lexia when it will not start, Fuel pressure in rail 300Bar, all sensors and readings are as expected.
Swapped crank and cam sensors for new ones (Re-fitted old ones after test)
Carried out injector leak-off tests, all OK
Removed heater plugs and carried out compression test (25 Bar in each cylinder) tested the heater plugs at the same time, all OK
Changed fuel filter and put a system cleaner through at the same time.
Swapped battery for a new one just to try.
Fitted an external fuel supply to check if the tank fuel P/P was not producing enough pressure.
Tested fuel for petrol contamination
Checked EGR V/V and turbo actuator function.

On top of this had the ECU sent for checking and no faults found."

The car has done about 90k so it's definitely worth saving but at the moment, we cannot figure out what's wrong.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by Kennyd90 »

Try a new starter motor. Had the same problem of slow starting on our 206 2.0hdi. Make sure your diesel filter is new too.
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by Bick »

Kennyd90 is right about the starter motor on 2.0hdi they get slightly lazy and can cause poor starting when hot.

As for the down on power is there a fuel pump in the tank on this model?
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by Peter.N. »

Doesn't say anything about the new pressure regulator, is it still on there or did they put the old one back?

Peter
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Thanks again everyone. The starter motor is an interesting point as thinking back it has been a slow cranking car as I remember a couple of times mentioning to my dad that the battery might need charging, so that sounds like a good test. Didn't the Xantia have an issue with the earth lead IIRC? Could cause the same symtoms as a dodgy starter, but will check both.

As for the regulator, we bought a spare and tried that. No change sadly, I'm not sure if Dad has left the old one on, or swapped it back.

I have no idea about the in tank fuel pump, but I will investigate.

Back soon.
Ollie
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by olliewarwick1 »

Well done Kennyd90, it looks like it's the starter motor. Dad put it into a garage up in Hereford and they replaced the starter motor and in their words "it's like a different car". I'll confirm when I next see him but thank you everyone for your input. The running issue I'll look into next time I see him.
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Re: C5 not starting well when hot and not running well

Post by waynedance »

Only just seen this thread, we had a Signum in the garage the other day that was a pig to start. That was also due to a lazy starter motor. The owner called a few days later and said it was like a new car.

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