Xsara Pic MOT failure for brake and exhaust

[Oliver53]

My poor picasso just failed her MOT yesterday with four problems:

- service brake efficiency below requirement
- brakes imbalanced across front axle
- rear brake recording little or no effort offside rear
- exhaust major leak (middle and rear join)

The brake problems are shocking but they might be the result of a common cause, which probably is the offside rear brake. So I took the drum off immediately I saw an oily mess in there...brake fluid was pouring out when i touched the seal with finger! I haven't got time to check the other side or the front brakes but i tend to believe the offside rear is the root cause. To cure this i think i will have to replace the wheel cylinders, brake shoes (they have been soked in the brake fluid so I reckon they have to go although there is still pretty thick of meat). but the drum doesn't need a replacement i think.



I also took pictures of the exhaust join, seems the situation is pretty bad coz i will have to replace the silencer, the central pipe and the clamp together.




Any thoughts please?

[JohnD]

You need to get an overhaul kit for your rear brakes. You get a new wheel cylinder complete with new shoes. If one side is leaking, you may be sure the other side won't be far behind. Also both sides need to be renewed to avoid unbalance. As regards the imbalance on the front - maybe that will be solved when the o/s rear leak is stopped.

A new rear box is called for. And the centre pipe doesn't look too healthy. Also get new clamps then you can remove the old ones simply with an angle grinder.

[Oliver53]

You need to get an overhaul kit for your rear brakes. You get a new wheel cylinder complete with new shoes. If one side is leaking, you may be sure the other side won't be far behind. Also both sides need to be renewed to avoid unbalance. As regards the imbalance on the front - maybe that will be solved when the o/s rear leak is stopped.

A new rear box is called for. When you get the clamp off, maybe the centre pipe will be ok. But even if you need it it's not expensive.

Many thanks John. Yes i will certainly change both sides. Now I am trying to find the overhaul kit...Is this the correct one? the information it gives is so vague and I can't tell if that is for a pair or what are included in the kit
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Citro ... e19&000419

[JohnD]

Yes - that's what you want (providing Picassos don't come with different makes of brakes). But also you'll need wheel cylinders - one nearside and one off side). The kit I got for my daughter's 306 had the brake shoes, new springs and the wheel cylinders all in the one box. http://www.eurocarparts.com/wheel-cylinder

Also you'd be well advised to wire brush the unions on the old wheel cylinders and a couple of days before you change them spray them with plus-gas to help free them up. Then use a brake union spanner. If you use an ordinary O/E spanner you'll take off the corners and be in deep trouble. You need one of these:-http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Flare-Wr ... B00862R5FW

[Oliver53]

Yes - that's what you want (providing Picassos don't come with different makes of brakes). But also you'll need wheel cylinders - one nearside and one off side). The kit I got for my daughter's 306 had the brake shoes, new springs and the wheel cylinders all in the one box. http://www.eurocarparts.com/wheel-cylinder

Also you'd be well advised to wire brush the unions on the old wheel cylinders and a couple of days before you change them spray them with plus-gas to help free them up. Then use a brake union spanner. If you use an ordinary O/E spanner you'll take off the corners and be in deep trouble. You need one of these:-http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Flare-Wr ... B00862R5FW

Thanks. Just took the drum off again and I saw TRW on the shoes. How can I tell if the one on ECP fits my car? on ECP site it says:
Bore Ø [mm] 22,22 Brake System Lucas
Diameter [mm] 228 for article number OEK367
Manufacturer Restriction I.ADJ. Mounting Type Pre-assembled
Width [mm] 40 Fitting Position Rear
Fitted Quantity 1 Other Information Braking/Driving Dynamics for vehicles with ABS

On mister auto all shoes are labeled as compatible to LUCAS / GIRLING / TRW
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/brake-k ... g3859.html

To add confusion on ECP a shoe set (without cylinders and fitting kit) is described as for Lucas Girling...
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Citro ... 1ab&000043

I have no idea if they are different or the same

[JohnD]

Impossible for me to say which will fit. If you bring up all the listed kits for your car there are different shoe widths mentioned. You'll have to do some comparing. I would try and buy from a local dealer so it's easy to swop if you get the wrong design. Also some kits are pre-assembled with new parts whilst the cheaper ones rely on swapping the old parts and springs. Either way you should take pictures so that if you can refer to them if you forget which way round a part goes.

[Oliver53]

Impossible for me to say which will fit. If you bring up all the listed kits for your car there are different shoe widths mentioned. You'll have to do some comparing. I would try and buy from a local dealer so it's easy to swop if you get the wrong design. Also some kits are pre-assembled with new parts whilst the cheaper ones rely on swapping the old parts and springs. Either way you should take pictures so that if you can refer to them if you forget which way round a part goes.

Cheers John. Just managed to register on Citroen Service and checked with my VIN, apparently it's a LUCAS system. So it should fit!
Anyway I'll measure and compare before fitting. Just in case.

[Oliver53]

Impossible for me to say which will fit. If you bring up all the listed kits for your car there are different shoe widths mentioned. You'll have to do some comparing. I would try and buy from a local dealer so it's easy to swop if you get the wrong design. Also some kits are pre-assembled with new parts whilst the cheaper ones rely on swapping the old parts and springs. Either way you should take pictures so that if you can refer to them if you forget which way round a part goes.

I'm struggling to loosen the brake line union nut...10mm spanner is too small to fit but 11mm is too loose Any ideas? isn't it a 10mm nut?

[JohnD]

It's an 11mm union. You need a pipe union spanner. If you use an ordinary O/E spanner you'll destroy the corners of the flats. Have you had plus-gas on the threads?

[Oliver53]

It's an 11mm union. You need a pipe union spanner. If you use an ordinary O/E spanner you'll destroy the corners of the flats. Have you had plus-gas on the threads?

I have had some WD40 on it for a few times since yesterday...and just came back from Halfords with a flare spanner (11mm) Seems it is still a bit too loose to fit

[RichardW]

It was probably 11mm when it was made, but rust has reduced it, and an 11mm will slip. You might get it undone with a pair of mole grips, but you may well find that the nut is welded to the pipe, in which case a new pipe will be needed....

[Oliver53]

It was probably 11mm when it was made, but rust has reduced it, and an 11mm will slip. You might get it undone with a pair of mole grips, but you may well find that the nut is welded to the pipe, in which case a new pipe will be needed....

Thanks. I am going to buy a pair of pipes plus the rubber hose coz I've discovered some cracks on it...

[RichardW]

Did they not even warrant an advisory on the MOT?

[JohnD]

That brake hose is shocking not to have had an advisory even at last year's test.

[daviemck2006]

My brake hoses weren't nearly as bad as that on the 205 and got straight fail for both of them. Couldn't undo the joint so got new pipes also, and the metal end stripped the alloy calipers coming out so needed two calipers also.