C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

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tonyk
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C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

Has anyone successfully fixed C3 1.4 HDI 16V starting problems? I have read many threads on various forums but nobody has found a solution for this. My car suffers from very bad starting and if I continue to crank it will emit white smoke, diesel fumes and will sound like a tractor on three cylinders. I can get by this problem by not continually cranking, but switching the ignition off and waiting for the dashboard light to go off, usually about 45 seconds before I try cranking it again, it will then start normally within a couple of seconds. This almost always works for me. The car then runs smooth with good acceleration so I can't believe there are any injector related or ecu failure problems as others have suggested because the car will run smoothly and pull well if i do this trick. I don’t want to think about replacing any expensive components as others seem to have done without success. I have yet to purchase a lexia but will probably be getting one soon to check all codes unless there is someone in the Wrexham area with a lexia?
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by myglaren »

Have a look here.
Mr Sloppysod lives in Wrexham :)
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

thanks myglaren, have pm sloppysod but the message is still in my outbox, I presume it will not show as sent until sloppysod is back on line?
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by myglaren »

Correct. It will stay there until he reads it.
chazaiki
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Re: C3 keyfob problem

Post by chazaiki »

Hi Guys

one of my keys i kept in the glovebox decided it would only work the remote locking / unlocking but wont start the engine. Message displays Antitheft fault. I have tried the hold lock button in the ignition and disconnected car battery to see if anything resets but still the same.

car is citroen c3 2007 petrol and flip key

Any ideas why one key works and other has decided not to start engine but central locking buttons work fine, Cheers, Chaz
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

Does anyone know how to undo the round connector top left of engine - the one that goes to the injectors . need to check that it is not coroded as the plastic bracket it is mounted in seems to hold water which has dripped down from washer jets. I can see there is a blue clip on the back which i can pull out but the connector doesn't want to come apart.
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

Got a lexia at last, took a while to install and figure out, but at last i have some codes to look at . I erased the first lot thinking that some of them may be historical or caused by myself disconnecting wiring while battery was connected. I ran the car fo 25 miles and a few fault codes have come back which may help resolve the starting issue on my C3 1.4HDI 16V

P1363 Intermittent fault, Accelerometer signal No signal at idle speed
P0191 Permanent fault, Diesel pressure signal Pressure invalid when starting
P1163 Intermittent fault, No restting by accelerometer - No perodic injector resetting

There has not been any improvement in the car so i am having the same staring issues as previously described

What should i look at next? is this worn injectors
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by RichardW »

Clearly this one is the issue: P0191 Permanent fault, Diesel pressure signal Pressure invalid when starting

You need to look at the live data when it's being cranked in a no-start state. What's the cranking speed, what's the rail pressure vs what the rail reference pressure? What's the position of the fuel pressure regulator vs the reference position? What's the EGR valve doing?
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

Hi Richard
i have tried to look at live data in a non start state but the car always starts first time while reading the injection parameter - have tried last night and all morning, reconnecting the lexia after the car has been impossible to start and then it behaves itself staring without hesitation. The fuel pressure measured v reference are same although the fuel pressure regulator OCR seems to stay at about 34-36%
i have actually blanked the EGR which has improved the general running of the engine although the EGR electrovalve OCR reads approx 94%.
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

Stilll having the same problems staring

I have done some leak off test and have collected the following amount of disel leak off

injector 1 128ml
injector 2 110ml
injector 3 159ml
injector 4 111ml

could it be that injector 3 the cause of my starting problems, it doesnt seem to be that far out,compared to other people resluts that have varied wildly between injectors ?

like ive said before, the car starts impeccably when the lexia is connected so i can't get any information in live data in the no start state. i suspect the fuel pressure may be low but cant get a reading

When it is is ticking over i have the following data

Engine speed 768 rpm
Engine torque 28Nm
Engine status Syncronised
Fuel pressure measured 235bar
Fuel pressure reference 245 bar
Fuel pressure regulator OCR 35%
output injected 8mg/stroke
Measured air flow 736 mg/cp
Air flow demanded 0 mg/cp
Turbo pressure setting 1035 Mb
Turbo pressure measured 988 Mb
Turbo electrovalve OCR 65%
Egr electrovalve OCR 0%
Pre injection advance 17 deg
Main injection advance 2 deg
Engine coolant temp 10 deg C
Fuel temp 8 deg C

Do i risk changing the injector or should i be looking elsewhere
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by wheeler »

The 1st thing thats jumping out at me here is your airflow reading, thats more than double the amount of air flow id expect to see even with the EGR valve blanked off. On this engine I would expect to see (with the EGR blanked) about 350 mg per stroke max at idle speed. Does the airflow reading increase when you rev the engine ?
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

oops thats a typo by me, think that should be Engine speed Measured air flow 376 mg/cp

I have just rechecked at idle and with increased revs:

Engine speed 768 rpm
Measured air flow 341 mg/cp
Air flow demanded 235 mg/cp

Engine speed 2048 rpm
Measured air flow 388 mg/cp
Air flow demanded 259 mg/cp

I have lexia on an old acer notebook which is a bit slow at times
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
wheeler
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by wheeler »

That sounds more like it.
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Re: C3 1.4 HDI 16V 2003 starting problems

Post by tonyk »

My problems seem to be getting worse. Wished i had left the car as it was at least it was running well when it eventually started
Following the leak off test managed to get a injector from ebay that apparently had only had a couple of weeks use
Injector was easy enough to fit. it took longer to pump all the air through using the primer. Coding the injector was a real problem, couldnt get the new code to stay in the memory. then i read somewhere about using the F1 key to configure and that seemed to work, changing the code and then memorising and then writing ok when back to read and hey presto new code had been retained. Think that using lexia on a notebook maybe some info at the bottom of the screen is missing so didn't get the prompt to use F1.

Then my problems started, cant get car to fire at all and Picked up 4 permanent faults:
P0102 Flowmeters signal short circuit
P1207 Diesel high pressure regulation circuit rail pressure coherence when starting
P1063 Diesel pressure signal invalid when staring
P1163 No restting of accelerometrr

Out of desperation I bump started the car and picked up an additional code
P0269 Cylinder3 injector circuit Acyclism
and surprise surprise the car did sound like it was running on three cylinders, mil light came and car won't rev over 3000 rpm

I am suspecting that either the injector is faulty or despite what lexia says it is not properley coded
can anyone help ?
C3 1.4 HDI 16V 92 2003
XSARA 2.0 HDI 90 2003
C5 MK1 2.0 HDI 110 2004
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