My Xantia Estate 1.9 D turbo went drag racing!

[stupidxantia]

Silly question time again ... it's been a while after all !
I am well into tuning my xantia estate 1.9td desire now. Turbo is running 22 psi at peak boost, the Bosch AS3 pump has the armour removed and the max fuel screw has been adjusted, throttle arm has been modified on the pump to give more fuel and the Lda pin has been moved to it's most aggressive slope (yet to be reground with a governor mod)! Not to mention there is a straight through pipe on the car with no silencers at all and the pump timing is now advanced suitably!

This car is fairly nippy now and doesn't produce massive clouds of smoke at all but the semi electric system with the EGR and other pump related electro faf is driving me mad ... occasionally the fuel system/ignition fault light will come on briefly, revs change and then it goes out again. I assume this is due to the electronics having a hissy fit about the improved settings so that insites my question .... Can you just remove the ECU that controls it all and fit a good old fashioned stop solenoid to the pump and be done with it (my keypad is disconnected anyway as it was breaking down) and it would be nice to convert the pump to run more like the old 405 turbo - d used to.


I'm fairly certain I will have plenty of people tell me it simply is not possible, anything is possible if you have the skill and knowledge!
I have a fairly nippy 1.9 turbo-d xantia Estate that runs on recycled veg oil 100% of the time in non winter months and it's a whole country mile from what it was like to drive in the boring detuned standard spec

Thanks in advance for any information regarding the disconnecting of the ecu module

[CitroJim]

Whilst retaining the AS3 you cannot remove the ECU as it controls the pump timing and glowplug relay plus it drives the tacho...

If the AS3 becomes disconnected from the ECU the timing defaults to fully retared and that's not good as even if you move the pump to be in correct time statically it has no mechanical automatic advance device and the car will run very poorly.

You can quite easily replace the pump with a non-ECU controlled VP20 fully mechanical pump and I've done it a couple of times. You must leave the old ECU in place for the tacho and glowplug functions though...

[falling-out-with-my-car]

sounds like you need a new fuel filter to me, I'd address this to see if the lights come on again first of all.
simply removing the cat and fitting a straight pipe improves things massively. first thing I did to mine.
went down the veg recycling route for about five years, ended up selling all the processing kit off
to a chap from London who had a twin tank system in a big 4x4, it can be a messy game at times. anyway diesel is cheaper now to maybe a good time to by some RUG to for winter antifreeze I mixed in as much as 12% at times and the car ran well, it has gone down to £1.06 recently. we had a Bosch pump with seals that failed on veg oil filled it up with a tank of diesel and the seals sealed up again and never leaked again.
The biggest problem I had was the vacuum advance on the end of the camshaft some xantia diesels have them some don't. where the two pipes join the valves bolted to the bulk head, the valves prooved faulty and this created running problems particularly at idle after a long run. When the engine refused to come down from about 1000 rpm it always happened on hot summer days never in the winter time. even went as far as changing the throttle cable as I thought it was sticking at one point. the pipes to the valves also crack near their ends and the damage is not always visible to the naked eye probably worth a check if you have them on yours.

[stupidxantia]

Great advice guys ... New diesel filter fitted about a week ago so I know there is no issue with that.

Could the Ecu be faulty as my rev gauge is all over the place?? or does it just simply pick up the signal from the sensor in the gearbox? possibly that is faulty as had a new clutch around 3k ago! I am reluctant to spend more cash on it just yet as just threw me a bill for £288.50 in the last 4 weeks .. Fuel filter, leak off pipes and fuel return line, full set of Beru glow plugs, aux belt (old one shredded without warning), timing belt, water pump and tensioners, oil and filter, all front brakes and all rear brakes ... My wallet is now of thin stature!

Regarding the pump swap / retaining AS3 setup, Will the AS3 dislike the advanced pump timing? Just a thought as to the possible cause of intermittent light coming on issue. Also are there any issues with engine fault light coming on or other starting issues that I may encounter when changing the AS3 for the other type, or will everything simply work as usual? ... What do you do regards the stop solenoid wiring? does it just plug into the same plug used on the AS3?

Sorry for all the extra questions but a non electric pump setup will give me a whole heap less trouble for what I am trying to achieve with this car, It can already give a Golf Tdi 130 a good run for it's money but I crave for more haha + I love the handling and ride you get with a Xantia, Nothing else comes close to comparison (unless it's a BX or XM)!

Bonus of changing out the pump I guess will be that I have a spare unit to play about with (wonder if you can convert an AS3 pump to non electric by changing certain parts within it?)!

Thanks again guys for you advice.

Graham

[CitroJim]

Graham,

No time now but I'll post later with full answers to the questions you ask about conversion...

[CitroJim]

Graham, an aux belt unexpectedly shredding normall indicates a problem with the automatic tennsioner. Normally i's pivot breaks and it pulls the belt off to one side.. Check the belt and tensioner jockey is running true and if not change the tensioner as soon as possible as next time you may not be so lucky...

The aux belt has been known to go thropugh the cam covers and take out the cambelt... That's fatal in a 1.9TD

Regarding the pump swap, I've normally taken the immobiliser module from the old AS3 pump (straddles the stop solenoid) and transferred it to the replacement mechanical pump. I've used mechanical pumps with the electric cold-start device and wired this to the glowplug supply so the cold advance is in effect when the glowplugs are alight.

Leave the old ECU in place but remove the Engine Management Light from the dash as it'll be on all the time.

To determine why the Management Light comes on you really need a Lexia diagnostic check but the normal reason is that the ECU cannot control pump timing due to lack of fuel pressure - hence the comment earlier by Nigel.

The ECUs themselves rarely fail but I'd recommend a Lexia session. Many members offfer the facility and I expect you can find one locally... There is a list on this forum.

[stupidxantia]

Awesome thankyou for the great advice there. I have considered removing the Ecu light from the dash but didn't know if you could on these (now I know you can). God knows what the M.o.t guys are going to think when this is presented in November, what with the no silencer and tuned state (fail I bet first shot as I run wvo)!

I have now got to fix a leak on the rear drivers side caliper as the little o'ring has gone brittle and is now throwing lhm all over my new brakes (that'll be new brake pads again then lol) and the bolts have stripped the threads so I have the need to convert to through bolts now as I have no intention of replacing the rear arms that's for sure!

Once again Thanks hugely ...

Graham

[chinkostu]

Graham, an aux belt unexpectedly shredding normall indicates a problem with the automatic tennsioner. Normally i's pivot breaks and it pulls the belt off to one side.. Check the belt and tensioner jockey is running true and if not change the tensioner as soon as possible as next time you may not be so lucky...

The aux belt has been known to go thropugh the cam covers and take out the cambelt... That's fatal in a 1.9TD
.

I think anything XUD derived is foul of this. The 206 absolutely ate the belt, somehow timing wasn't completely out, but it took a few hours to get the remnants from under the cam belt!

Car still runs!

[falling-out-with-my-car]

avoid GSF aux belt tensioners if you can its worth spending a bit more on an alternative the GSF ones start to vibrate
badly at idle after only 50 miles, ive had three in the last 3 years all go the same way on my S2 you could also check the aux-belt tensioner bolt for security I had one loosen its self and the tensioner came away from the block fortunately it happened as I pulled over to the side of the road and just made a loud noise no damage was done.

These days the tensioners have plastic wheels and the edges can crack and fall away it sounds as though something is causing your aux belt to track away from its intended path. don't get oil, grease or lhm on the belt this will make one side stretch and track inward or outward off the pulleys. When my alternator was removed by Pleiades today we noticed that all the bolts had fallen out of the casing on the old alternator nothing was holding the two halves together except the mounting bracket, this could have been why I was loosing so many tensioners and belts over the past 3 years. worth a look at yours I'd say.
Funny ive just imagined everyone grabbing a torch to see if their alternator bolts are still in place

[stupidxantia]

I have been under the front of the car today and it looks like the aux belt as wobbling around near the a/c compressor, however around the belt idler? and tensioner upwards it seems fine ... very odd further investigation needed which will be done in the next week as new timing belt + tensioners getting done by a knowledgeable friend that knows all about the Xud!

Cleaned LHM filters again today after the system flush (with LHM) last year to find yet more large black bits stuck in them!

The suspension has been a bit weird since owning the car and the front never sits as high as it should, If the car is on high for any length of time it refuses to drop the front. When it does the front struts creak and groan.
When you put it on low setting the front drops immediately and the back drops as it should ... yet the rear sinks over the course of a couple of hours when parked up! I have been thinking that the front height corrector is clogged up and needs a strip and clean, However I am putting off removing it from the car as every time I do a job like this on the car, 6 more things break

Could there be other issues with the suspension that I could be overlooking as when I parked my estate near a 93 hatchback the other day in whitby, the front of my car looked about 3 inches too low (ride over bumps in the front is also crashy if you don't put the suspension on high setting and then onto normal)???

[lexi]

Unless you just love working on the car.........constantly, you are far better off with an HDI. With diesel at £1.06 and 50 mpg, along with 20bhp more?
No Mot issues etc. From years of cars and building, modifying stuff.......standard is much less hassle and always cheaper in the long run.

It isn't what you asked but someone had to say it

[CitroJim]

The Aux. belt rattling a bit between the crank and A/C pulleys is normal enough at idle and as long as it clears and runs smooth and true at speeds just above idel and beyond then it's OK...

One thing to bear in mind is that the 1.9TD could be fitted with two different A/C compressors (Harrison or Sandan) and each require a slightly different belt size. Belt size is bloody critical and so is the adjustment of the eccentric tensioner to ensure the tension is spot-on. Adjust by pinning the auto tensioner and then adjustingt he eccentic until the pin can just be removed.

If the eccentic goes to its maximum eccentricy and the pin is still held firm then you need a shorter belt.

The Haynes BoL covers this exceedingly well in the 2.1TD adjustment section. Late 1.9s and 2.1s share the same system.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Aux belts are also guided at the front of the car by two flat plates either side of the alternator pulley and of course the teeth in the belt and the grooves in the alternator and lhm pump and compressor pulleys.

I mentioned the fuel filter earlier but I forgot to mention the fuel tank filter a lovely job you'll have a lot of fun doing that.
get yourself a cushion its hard on the knees. this being blocked could put the lights on on the dash.

I wonder if yours is Bosch pumped and she has seen a little veg oil at some point? diesel with water could block the tank filter as well as recycled veg oil also containing water or solid fats that have formed during the winter months.

don't do this with a full tank you could be cleaning diesel from the ground for a few months to come.
allow yourself good weather if outside and at least 3 hours for cleaning and drying of components.

also observe the position of the big black sealing washer and how it seals the top of the tank as you remove the big plastic ring nut this is critical to resealing the tank later on, a bad seal and it will splash diesel all over the top of the tank and it stinks inside the car.

lift the rear seat drivers side and prop up the seat against the drivers seat, then pull away the rubber disk under the carpet, remove the electrical plug from the sender unit and wrap in a piece of cling film to keep the diesel off of it.

unscrew the black plastic ring around the neck of the tank, you'll need to tie some string tightly to the fuel lines before you remove them by pinching the plastic clips on the ends and sliding them off the sender unit pipes. as they may disappear under the car if you do not rethreading them back up to the tank can be a nightmare, I leave the string attached just in case I need to do it again in the future tying the slack in the string to the fuel lines

The fuel lines are colour coded and one line is a smaller diameter than the other anyway so you cant put the wrong pipe back in the wrong place.

I use a flat file with a square end and a soft rubber mallet to coax the big black plastic ring nut from the top of the tank.

it is a bit of an art getting the filter assembly out of the tank it needs to be tilted to the right a bit I. e. forwards toward the front of the car at the top and the white plastic cylinder should slide out. you can then go about giving it a nice clean
if it has dirt built up at the bottom of the plastic cylinder clean it out the pipe inside the cylinder and the cylinder all come apart. there will be a small rubber valve at the bottom of the cylinder which can easily be blocked by small particles of muck as the diesel moves around in the tank.
that is for a S2 sender unit a MK1 sender unit doesn't have the white cylinder just a long plastic pipe and a filter attached to the bottom of the pipe and is a lot easier to remove. if these filters have never been cleaned you can bet they probably need a clean.
Running on veg oil its a once a year job, thank god I don't do that anymore. My Fathers Mk1 Vsx needed cleaning at about 100K and it had never been run on veg at the time. it to was putting the dash lights on through the lack of fuel being delivered. water at the bottom of the tank can form a nasty sludge/emulsion around the filter blocking it up.

Have you tried lubricating the linkages beneath the Height adjuster and at the front and rear linkages they can seize a bit over the years.
especially at the rear I'm not sure what the rear component is called but I'm sure Jim will be along soon to tell you.
The BX used to get stuck at the rear occasionally and need freeing off and lubricating perhaps this device is affecting the front levels a bit. you could lube the front struts by pulling back the dust covers under the springs and trickling some lhm down the struts this should stop the groaning sound but it always comes back on mine, its embarrassing sometimes especially if you've got a belly and the car groans when you get out of it, its like its complaining.

How often does the front accumulator make a ticking noise is it every 5 to 15 seconds or every 30 to 50 seconds?
if its the first, it could be time to replace your accumulator sphere. when were the spheres last replaced? do they have a date written on them in a permanent black marker pen? always a wise thing to do, when renewed.

Just wait till you park up on full steering lock with the engine running its like being on a fairground ride.

[stupidxantia]

^^^

This information will be used as soon as I have an afternoon free to take the tank pump off the car! You have highlighted a job with the filter in there that I had totally forgotten about it's existence.

Pump ticks between 30-50 seconds so I guess that is all good, The 4 corner spheres were changed by a previous owner a few years ago but as far as I know the accumulator and anti sink were not done at this time.
The linkages under the height corrector look like they have never had any attention at all to be honest and there is no sign of grease around the correctors either, I keep pondering about taking off the correctors and cleaning them out .... But I am scared to death of breaking something that is no longer produced and wrecking the car.

Diesel pump is indeed the Bosch AS3 unit and the car has run on mostly veg for at least 3 years, using diesel only in the colder months. I have no record of anyone ever cleaning the in tank filter on this car and no reason to believe that it has been done at any point, first thing I am doing now .

I am really unsure as to the procedure of greasing the linkage parts and height correctors as there seems to be nothing in the B.o.l about it and no one has ever shown me how (or even explained the procedure). Is there anything to check for when greasing them i.e how to tell if something is seized and if so how to free it off ?? I know how to knock off the pressure from the system and change brakes etc but I am still learning with the whole LHM system, It really is fascinating how the whole thing works ... but I need to learn how to service it and keep it in good order!

Again thanks for your input I would truly be lost without it

Graham

[myglaren]

There is a good guide to cleaning and lubricating the height correctors here.