Can anyone help? C5 HDI X7 Auto gearbox hesitating!

[Stickyfinger]

It is on the Next To do list don't worry, I just did not want to touch the box until after the warranty work was done.

[andrejcikv]

Hi. I have the same problem with my 3.0 HDi. I am going to change valve body on mine. It is a common problem of those gearboxes. I am doing my in Slovakia for about 450 pounds labour and parts included. The guy said it is because nobody change the oil in this gearboxes and then some bushes not holding the preasure in valve body. I am going to use refurbished valve body where using improved bushes which can last for longer. I will update some info after job will be done which will be 11 of august. Mine done 75000 miles now and oil been change in 65000. I would recommended change oil every 40000 miles even citroen said it is sealed for life. When oil been change they said the original oil was slightly contaminated when drained.

[SaabC5]

If it takes 3309 spec gearbox oil there are two alternatives to OE transmission oil, Mobil 1 do a fully synth 3309 and also Toyota type IV tranny oil is the same stuff. My Saab 9-5 took the same stuff and Saab wanted stupid money for GM branded oil.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Dont know what fluid Citroen recommend for the Aisin Warner 6-speed box.

Vauxhall/Saab specify the same stuff (part no 93165147) meeting the AW-1 spec.



This is available from AutoVaux at £7.45/litre inc VAT. Dont know shipping costs.

Granville do a fully Synthetic Dexron VI oil which specifies "on the tin" that it meets the AW1 spec (not many do). In general more expensive.



For TF-80SC (ie the AW 6-speed box) enthusiasts there are endless discussions on virtually all car forums which use the box in their vehicles. A lot of the discussions relate to what is the correct fluid to use..this one from a Volvo forum is typical

When I do eventually get round to doing the full flush change I know if I go my Auto Transmission Specialist they will use a semi-synthetic or fully synthetic oil, and I suspect that this was the case when my transmission was rebuilt. The "genuine" 93165147 stuff is mineral based, as it turns out cheaper now, and very probably not as good or long-lasting as the synthetic. Also my rebuilt box has now done 93,000 miles, and still currently working as it should.

In summary you have to make your own mind up....I haven't done that myself just yet

Regards Neil

[ken.chapman]

I know I can always rely on the French Car Forum!

Went to Waitrose at the weekend and when walking back to the car noticed I had a flat tyre. Strange but got it fixed as soon as I became aware of it. Drove back from the tyre fitters and hey presto! Gear change all fixed!

It seems that this affects the differential which in turn tricks the gearbox into not working properly or adapting for the situation. I am an aircraft engineer so this description given by an AT technician seems to fit and in my case worked a treat!

Hope that can help others as I'd never noticed the tyre had gone flat until I'd turned into the space in the supermarket and the tyre was starting to move off the rim (no TPWS)! Lesson to me to check my tyres more regularly.

[Xantidote]

So Waitrose have branched out into the car repair business have they, their speciality being french cars?

Wonder if they can fix my car whilst I buy the groceries

@ Ken, fingers X that your gearbox now top notch

[KP]

62000miles and done 3 partial changes on the box doing about 3.5 litres each time near enough.

Box is a little bit smoother but not loads a it was already pretty smooth. Next flushing will be in 5 years or 60k if it doesn't get replaced by then.

Gearbox is the AM6 fitted to the HDI138 engine in a 2009 C5 X7 Tourer.

Fluid was bought in a GM bottle from Vauxhall for just over £10 a bottle and a smidge of discount buying 13 all in

Fluid came out very dark and fluid going in was a lot healthier colour wise. I would definitely get some flushing going on. Technically i think the inner plug could be removed to drain off about 1/2-1litre and that could be used with the engine running to flush the fluid in one go. Maybe better if you have a straw that would be a very snug fit up the hole to push it up to just a smidge below the correct level and then start flushing

[KP]

FYI the fluid, like engine fluids should be changed at mileage OR age, just as its on 37k doesn't mean the fluid is good after 6years... 6 years with low miles is still plenty of hot and cold cycles in winter and summer and possibly worse with shorter lower speed journeys allowing much more clutch slip and less TC lockup more wear will occur and debris in the fluid..

[Sloppysod]

Good Point KP, I did actually change the auto fluid in my wifes Corsa when we bought it it was only 5 years old and only done 29,000. The C5, according to the Service indicator has about 17,000 miles before its next 'scheduled' service, going on my annual mileage will take about 15 months!!. So I think I will change the Auto fluid, just change not flush within the next couple of weeks, when I have the time, and before my next planned big journey (1500-2000 mile trip) later this month.
Thanks to everyone
Stu

How to change the fluid, from the Citroen Service Documentation.

Hopefully you can see, download these instructions, please let me know if you can not. http://goo.gl/T6gWuJ
Vehicle, 2011 C5 2.0l, 163 Hdi
Autobox, BVA AM6C1
Engine DW10CTED4 FAP TURBO DIESEL

[NewcastleFalcon]

That link will be very useful. As with other vehicle manufacturers utilising the Aisin Warner 6 Speed box, eg SAAB, Volvo, Vauxhall, The Citroen Instructions are very specific on Fluid for the AM6 box

The oil type "AW-1" in AT6 and AM6 gearboxes with engine version Euro 5 is specific and cannot be replaced with oil type "JWS 3309"

The six speed AW box has a different spec for fluid to the 5-speed box.

regards Neil

[Sloppysod]

The saga continues,

The oil type "AW-1" in AT6 and AM6 gearboxes with engine version Euro 5 is specific and cannot be replaced with oil type "JWS 3309"

so they are not compatible, right?

The text after this warning paragraph to the caution reads
"Type of oil (Red) :
 EURO 5 engine : AW-1 oil,
 EURO 4 engine : JWS 3309 ESSO oil

I found a Vavoline Maxlife oil which supposedly meets AW-1 & JWS3309 but it does not say suitable for Citroens or Volvo models with Aisin Warner 6-speed ** transmission.!!!. It was mentioned earlier that the Volvo uses the same gearbox!

[vborovic]

I know my dealer guys had a hard time figuring out which oil should be used, and finally they settled on this (which should be the 3309, not the AW-1, but supposedly they got clearance from Citroen that this is just fine) ... one of the reasons I decided to let them do the oil job, if the used oil will actually harm the gearbox, not my problem, but theirs ...

[Stickyfinger]

and try and prove it

if the used oil will actually harm the gearbox, not my problem, but theirs ...

[vborovic]

Easy ... I have the order and the related documents that declare that this oil was put in the gearbox by them ... if the gearbox breaks down, I just have to show that to them or to Citroen Croatia, and just sit back and relax (holding the claim that the wrong oil was put in, as defined by the Citroen Service procedures - for the Euro 5 engine/gearbox combo) ... so, I sleep soundly ...

[NewcastleFalcon]

My conversation with the Auto-Transmission Specialist who rebuilt my AW 6-speed box, when I went intending for a full-flush ATF change at 50,000 miles went something like this.

Would you be able to do a full-flush ATF change on my AF40 Box and how much would you charge?
Yes no problem, it would take probably around 10-12 litres of fresh fluid probably around £250.
Would that be using mineral-based or synthetic ATF?
We will be using synthetic ATF. ATF's have moved on and synthetics have longer life. We dont use mineral-based ATF.

But the spec for the gearbox requires a mineral based atf to AW-1 Specification.

Listen, we'll put anything you want in, but we wont guarantee it if we dont supply the fluid.

By that time there was an audience of a number of "know-it-alls" assembled in the small reception area on their break from the workshop. At this point my confidence in them doing the job expired, and I made my exit.

As said in my earlier posts, the gearbox is working fine, but is probably a ticking time-bomb, needing a preventitative full flush ATF change. Its now done 93,000 miles since the rebuild, and on bog standard ATF from the vat at the specialists. Give them their due they did a good job on the rebuilding of the box, and whatever ATF they used has proved to be quite adequate for the box.

I am also left with the dilemma what ATF to use, the AW-1 mineral fluid, the Dexron VI from Granville, which says on the tin meets AW-1 or go back to the specialist and let them just get on with the job.

The thing I don't want to do is precipitate a failure on a box which is performing well, part mixing Dexron VI and AW-1 mineral may just do this

Regards Neil