C5 write-off or repair?

[addo]

Out of curiosity, is there any legal avenue to appeal a write-off category?

[Gibbo2286]

Out of curiosity, is there any legal avenue to appeal a write-off category?

Probably not addo, Category C & D are both free to repair but as the insurance company has written them off for financial reasons they will remain listed as write offs.

[macplaxton]

But there are cases where a car isn't categorized. Categorisation and what happens to stuff consequently, is a code of practice. Sometimes mentioned is Category X or uncategorised where no marker is given.

Having a cat-C is a bit of a pain in the 'ole as any insurer will see the marker and automatic de-value it approx 25% below market value if it ends up in another total-loss. Is there a concrete date for the doing away of the Vehicle Identity Check scheme? Last I heard it was pencilled in for October 2015.

http://www.mvda.org.uk/content.aspx?id=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... vic-scheme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Too many older used cars are cat-C'd by virtue of value, where newer ones in exactly the same state pass undetected through the system as they have been repaired by the insurers. Some insurers turn their nose up at re-insuring a cat-C.
In any case, if I were an eccentric millionaire and just got it repaired out of my own pocket, then there would be no category marker on it. The whole thing is sold as "protecting the consumer", but it's more like "protecting the industry's interests".

Of interest:
From FBHVC Newsletter 05/2012 - http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/_file/22/fbhvc-news-5-12-pdf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P10, Insurance Matters, Insurance salvage:
It does seem that it is possible for an owner to discuss a write off with the DVLA but success is most likely if the vehicle is a genuine older vehicle with proven rarity or historic value.

The Federation has heard of a case where a vintage car, due to be crushed as a result of being submerged in a flood (the worst sort, from the drains) was saved when DVLA agreed that it was worthy of preservation. In another case a similar vehicle, badly damaged in an accident, was going to cost more than the insured value to repair. The insurers paid the owner a generous amount, agreed not to declare a write off and the owner kept the salvage. The car was rebuilt and is back on the road.

This does give hope that insurers and the DVLA can be persuaded with the right argument.

Now I know that relates to more "Historic Vehicles" being affected by the system, but shows anything is up for haggling.

[addo]

That's good to hear of some possibility for dialogue.

We have a savage write-off scheme here, basically if it's five years old and a fly poops on the bonnet the car's a total loss and must be parted out or crushed. It's also got a loophole for "significant reasons" to avoid this fate (my wording), and I'm almost hoping to be one of the bods who tests it.

[macplaxton]

Well I'm in Ireland and they do something similar to the UK.

I retained salvage on this:

p9110017 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Now that's at least a cat B. As I couldn't be bothered getting the welder out again , I kept it for a year to strip parts from it. Then I weighed-in the shell and got a certificate of destruction and deregistered it. I didn't have to sign or commit to anything when I retained the salvage.



The UK code of practice is just that (a code and not law) and it's not unheard of to have a cat B vehicle appear back on the road. Nothing illegal about it.


Anyway getting back to the C5, It'll be half the price to fix it using quality used spares.

[Gibbo2286]

With more and more dealers and repairers keeping computer records it's likely that even if it's not written off the fact that it was accident damaged will pop up in a search of its history.

[sjc204]

Here's what happened. I took £3300 from the nice kind insurance people and kept the car.

I went to my friendly garage, Mike Drake in Plymouth, who are Citroen specialists. They had the car checked over by an MOT station and got a new MOT immediately. They looked at the driver's seat and found a bolt had worked its way out, it must have come loose before the accident because nothing was broken. They put the seat back in.

I bought a new tailgate and rear bumper from an on-line scrapyard for 145. The bumper turned out not to have the mounts for the parking sensors, so after a trawl of scrapyards I got them to order the new piece from Citroen, which took ages and cost another 160. In the end I paid the garage a bit over 600.

The tailgate glass that came from the scrapyard wasn't used, and is available on ebay.

I had a problem subsequently with the tailgate window switch setting off the alarm. It is mounted in the trim under the window which is quite bendy and seems to flex when everyone in the street is asleep (it get cold in the night?). The switch is coming off today as I never open the window anyway.

The replacement tailgate is not as good as the old one and I have had some hassle, I was without the car for a while, but it worked out ok.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

[Old-Guy]

Surely as you're not at fault and the vehicle *is* repairable, they're obliged to repair it if you say so...As I understand it, you're under no obligation to accept an offer for any cash payout. If you want the vehicle fixed properly, they just have to deal with that no matter what the car's worth, and if someone's gone into the back of your car there shouldn't be any question over fault.

This is a common misconception. This was the general legal position until a landmark High Court case in which the judge ruled that an insurance company could not reasonably be expected to spend more than the vehicle's value on repairs. This established a legal precedent which would take a contrary Appeal Court decision to reverse. A few insurance companies still stick to the old principle if you're not at fault and you have comprehensive insurance, they'll pay for repair.

As an economic write-off, the car will already be recorded at DVLA as a Cat4 write-off. You would need a VOSA inspection to get the CAT4 lifted - more hassle than expense.

If the damage is limited to tailgate and bumper, accept the offer provided you can keep the car, source the parts yourself and get a good local bodyshop to sort it. If the insurers drastically reduce their offer, ask why, "So you're going claim the value of my car from the other insurer, sell my car into the trade for repair and resale, making a nice little profit at my expense. That sound's like fraud to me." In the view of many people this practise is just that.

No wonder a lot of people see little wrong in inflating an insurance claim when opportunity offers. Personally speaking, honesty is absolute not relative.

[Zelandeth]

Thanks for the correction. Shows that some folks in the trade don't even know the whole truth given that I was quoting advice given from someone who works in the automotive insurance trade.

Was certainly the situation as I found it a few years back when someone went into the back of my Lada Niva (granted, in my case it was a case of fitting a new exhaust trim, reattaching the mudflap that was knocked off (having been hanging off for months anyway...) and getting the rear valance resprayed to sort the scuff, think the whole lot came to a few hundred quid, mostly prep-work for the paint and the paint itself because they had to have it mixed specially - unlike the Merc that ran into me (I was stationary in a queue of traffic - she was on her phone - she was looking at pretty much an entirely new front end, A/C condender, radiator and oil cooler all holed, both headlights, bumper no longer attached to vehicle and bonnet detached at both rear corners, and I'm pretty sure the front wheels weren't pointing in the same directions any more. Think it was even more painful for them when I drove off the bonnet of their car where my Niva had ended up nicely balanced.

Their insurance company were astonishingly co-operative. Was a very simple conversation something along the lines of "get a quote at your bodyshop of choice, clear it with us first, then get the work done and get the garage to invoice us for the work." Followed their instructions and never had any further trouble. Acceptance letter of my quote came through within 12 hours of the phone call by special delivery mail, and invoice was paid without any question marks or problems. Well, aside from the inevitable ambulance-chasers after me for years anyway, but that seems par for the course these days.

Did a lot to make me realise how solid that little car was too! Think it was about six months after that that someone else did exactly the same thing to me in nearly exactly the same place - except that time it was a police car. Their Omega didn't come off much better than the Merc the previous time - but on that occasion there literally wasn't any damage to the Niva whatsoever save for a bit of white paint transfer onto the bumper rubber strip. Imagine they had a fun time calling that incident in...

[Old-Guy]

Out of curiosity, is there any legal avenue to appeal a write-off category?

No. Some insurance companies seem to do it out of spite before you even get a letter from them! Several years ago I had an exhaustive explanation from a most helpful chap on VOSA's helpline. The Cat D (was4) marker will be removed from DVLA records following a satisfactory VOSA VIC inspection, which is no more than a VIN and engine number check.

As many VOSA test stations have been closed, the volume of Cat4 inspections on inexpensive cars are a complete pita for all concerned. VOSA dislike having limited inspection capacity that could be better employed being wasted on largely pointless inspections of minor body damage. Car owners will wait weeks for an appointment which will take an hour or more (mostly waiting) plus the journey time.

There's no obligation to have a VOSA inspection, "...where a person retains the salvage it can be returned to the road, but is subject to a VIC if the V5 is surrendered to DVLA". This is interpreted by DVLA as when the V5... so you can't sell a written-off vehicle without a VIC inspection, and DVLA will not remind you when the tax is due for renewal.

As an aside, it's unwise to rely on DVLA reminding you anyway. A lot of reminders seem to 'get lost in the post'.

The law seems to have changed somewhat with regard to an innocent victim being put back in the position the were in, becoming more complicated but with the balance being swung back towards claimants by Court of Appeal decisions within the last 2 years.

[Eddie Nuff]

This was the general legal position until a landmark High Court case

Do you have a link for that, OG?