Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

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dei9
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Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by dei9 »

Hi all,

I've seen a 52 plate Xsara for £500 quid. It's checks out OK except for the autobox. Dealer reckons the box is fine. But it's very sluggish to pull off and doesn't kick down in any way. So what could be the usual problem for these boxes given the symptoms. There were no flashing lights. So is it too much of a gamble?

Thanks, Deian
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Peter.N. »

Personally I wouldn't buy an auto if it was working perfectly as failure would probably write the car off. Repair is not usually a DIY job unless you understand and are not afraid of them. Apart from that they are slow and thirsty.

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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

Has it EVER had an Oil Change ?..................if not (bet it has not) then that makes auto boxes VERY sluggish to change.

A bet is a Bet however
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Mandrake »

I also wouldn't touch it.

"Sluggish to pull off and doesn't kick down" sounds like it's in limp home mode - which means it will be stuck in 3rd gear because either the ECU has failed or is missing power, or the ECU has detected a fault that has put it into limp mode, which could be anything from faulty inputs (controls) to faulty electrovalves or other fault in the gearbox. At the very least you'd want to put it on a Lexia to find out why it's in limp mode.
Last edited by Mandrake on 30 May 2015, 22:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

IF it were in "Limp" mode, why no lights on the dash ?
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Mandrake »

Stickyfinger wrote:IF it were in "Limp" mode, why no lights on the dash ?
Not all cars will display flashing lights on the dash from the gearbox being in limp mode. For example a Series 2 Xantia V6 will but a Series 1 will not because there is no gearbox repeater on the dashboard...

Also a lack of power to the ECU like a blown fuse will obviously not display a limp mode warning on the dashboard, you'd only see a warning if the fault was something other than power or a dead ECU.

It's just occurred to me too that I was assuming the gearbox is an AL4 but depending on the age it might be a fully hydraulic box like a 4HP14. Anyone know what box that year uses ?

Anyway, point is greatly reduced acceleration and no kickdown strongly suggests its in limp mode regardless of whether there is a warning on the dashboard or not. The only thing the gearbox can do to drastically reduce acceleration from stationary is to start in a higher gear or have major clutch slip. Clutch slip would cause the engine to overrev so if it's not doing that it will be in a high gear.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Stickyfinger »

KO....thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by dei9 »

I believe it's an AL4 box.

Now I definitely think it's in Limp mode (it has the dashboard thing, and it could have the snow and sport light flash upon faults), the lights move to show where the lever is as normal and sports comes on when asked, u can press to go to gear one when needed too, but nothing. So I am not sure on this one. It would be an ideal car it had the box working nicely and as much as I could take a gamble on it, that's what it would be. Concerning me more is that the dealer thinks it drives fine and says he doesn't think there is a fault with it. So based on that shady lie I'm tempted leave this one. He reckons it'll be gone next week. I explained to him that someone wanting to buy that car will probably know they want an auto box and have driven an autobox before and therefore will know instantly if it's a duff box or not.

So it all boils down to how likely it will be that it's an electrovalve fault on the box or whether the clutches are too worn down. Or whether it just needs an oil change, it's only done 93k, so it shouldn't be so slow at that mileage with bad oil right. If it doesn't need a strip down to replace some seals or clutches and if it needs just an oil change or an electrovalve change what do those jobs usually cost?

The bottom line is, I know my Xantia is a manual, but it's so so so so much quicker.

Thanks all.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by isisalar »

I also have a 2.0HDI Xantia manual, which goes like a train, and I recently had an Xsara 2.0 HDI automatic for a few days as a loan car from a Citroen specialist.
I like auto's and was quite looking forward to enjoying the extra performance in the lighter car and the smooth changes of the box which I was told was the same as in my old 1.9d auto Xantia, which was superb.
It was HORRIBLE, very slow, reluctant to kick down, jerky gearchanges and generally just HORRIBLE.
I was seriously considering a C5 HDI auto and it's really put me off the idea if that's what the auto's are like now.
You might well spend money getting it working properly and still end up with something HORRIBLE.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by citroenxm »

The hdi auto on 2.0 engines ONLY is the AL4 box. Its simmilar to the zf hp20 box but its apparently a psa design.. its also easyer to get at the valve block on the al4 and get at the electrovalves...

I have a c5 hdi 2.0 auto and i find the opposite. . Its smooth in operation and i love the overall operation. They also suufer another issue in that the electro valve that operates the lock up clutch can get weak and lets the lockup drop out meaning in top gear it revs higher and when throttle is released the revs drop to idle. Im informed this does not hurt the box itself just your pocket.

If its an al4 that wont change unless you know gearboxs inside out id not touch it!!
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by dei9 »

Well, I found another one (a red one), and it's a very tidy and well looked after car with FSH, the autobox had an oil change recently and the engine had a new timing belt 13k ago. And the autobox works spot on, I tested everything I could think from what I picked up from here and other places on the net. I didn't pay full price for it, just market value ;-) When I went to see it, it was filthy. But a valet will sort it, the body work is pretty mint tbh, I couldn't see any scratches or rust anywhere (and i looked REALLY hard).

Thanks for the info Paul. I''ll keep a close eye on this one though. I'm not completely familiar with the boxes myself but I did have the Xantia V6 with the same box, so I know how it should behave at the very least. The technical docs will be interesting reading.

So in comparison, the box on the silver one was bloody awful in comparison, I don't know what that dealer will do with it tbh. LOL
So 'isaslar' you must have had a courtesy car with a bad box too. This one I test drove and subsequently bought was tight and predictable, no messing about, if you booted it, it kicked down and off it went up to 4500rpm. Sports mode was well, quite sporty (busy box indeed in sports mode) and the torque converter locked up as needed (which is what i think was wrong with the other one tbh, it felt like it was slipping on the fluid), which is what you suggested paul. So again, bang on there.

Needless to say the Xantia will be for sale. Anyone want to make an offer before it goes up on ebay? (I'll post up an ad in the for sale section).

Thanks all.
...from Dei

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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by Mandrake »

dei9 wrote:I'm not completely familiar with the boxes myself but I did have the Xantia V6 with the same box, so I know how it should behave at the very least.
The 4HP20 and AL4 are two completely different boxes.

Superficially similar yes, but very different in internal design. One is made by ZF and one by Siemens, so they're not even designed or built by the same company...
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by citroenxm »

Mandrake wrote:
dei9 wrote:I'm not completely familiar with the boxes myself but I did have the Xantia V6 with the same box, so I know how it should behave at the very least.
The 4HP20 and AL4 are two completely different boxes.

Superficially similar yes, but very different in internal design. One is made by ZF and one by Siemens, so they're not even designed or built by the same company...
You beat me to it ... the zf box is a strip down to get at the electro valves where the al4 they sit behind the cover on the front of the box. Incedentally Renault also use the al4 box but give it a different name to psa.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by dei9 »

So the box in was the Xantia V6 is 4HP20 (that was a sweet box).
Anyway for someone like me, I guess the differences aren't too much.
Either way it'll be nice to get back to an auto TD, the last two auto's I had were MB boxes ('99 C250TD (awesome engine!!) and a '00 C200K (not diesel obvs)), both faultless units.
See you around.
...from Dei

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2001 Xsara 2.0 Hdi 110 LX Auto
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Re: Xsara 2.0HDi autobox issues

Post by citroenxm »

The hdi 2.0 8v and auto box is a nice combination i liked it very much in the c5 and gives a nice ride.

Economy on the c5 auto hdi showed an average of 44mpg! And it was not far out either. Should be better in a xsara as they have no weight in them.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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