Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless...

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aquilaalba
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Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless...

Post by aquilaalba »

Got another mystery here, ok, it's a van, but it's the same (?) 2.2 HDi engine as used on other cars, so maybe one of you have come across this problem before. Here we go. The van starts every time with no problems, ticks over fine with no smoke apparent. Smoke becomes heavy when you put load to it, start driving, etc. It smokes grey and heavy (smells like unburnt diesel), when it reaches 1/4 of the temp scale it starts to smell like burning oil and smokes blue, then when you knock it off it will drive perfectly fine with no smoke at all. There are times when it will start and will go without smoke as well. If you start it and won't let standing ticking over but start driving or rev it right from the start, it will delay / null the smoking bit. I've had coolant flush so far and new coolant put in as previous owner was water based, thermostat was replaced, MAF was faulty and has been replaced, oil level drops slowly in accordance with oil burning when smoking blue, but it's a rather slow drop. It was all oily, since being pressure washed it is clean, which is another puzzle, yet read about some that became oil covered for no reason, so maybe that's the case? It's 2006 and only 83k miles on the clock, plus it's a nice van so I'd rather keep it, but at a loss for now as not sure what is wrong and all local garages want to replace part after part until it will resolve itself. Not one of them mentioned the turbo seals, which it seems like according to what I've read so far, but the van is still powerful, so not sure if this is the case. None of the garage has pulled the pipes either to check if there's oil in them, so not sure what did they check so far... I've put some cleaning additive and that seems to made things worse. Topped it up with fresh diesel now, but all still apparent. Odd part is that there are times when it just drives as should with no smoke at all. Can it be the EGR? I know, how long is a piece of string, but... Any help / suggestions appreciated.
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by Stewart(oily) »

I had a bizarre problem with a DW8 where it would always start, sometimes it would drive well others very flat and loads of smoke, it turned out to be the plastic butterfly (Part of the EGR system) in the inlet not operating as it should, I wired it in the fully open position and normality was restored.
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
BX
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by BX »

At 2006 your van probably has the Transit engine rather than a DW12. Check which one you have. If its the Ford engine recoding the injectors may solve the problem.
Also you may get better tips on one of the Transit forums.
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by Peter.N. »

If it smells of unburnt diesel its either got to be low compression or an injector problem.

Peter
aquilaalba
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by aquilaalba »

Problem I'm having is that it will sometimes start and drive perfect, so there is no compression problem, no bent con rods, etc. Nothing of this kind would occasionally clear itself - it's got to be either some sensor or something like EGR / actuator on something that gets stuck now and again. When I first had it, it was all covered in oil and leaking. When we've washed it - it stayed clean and stopped dripping oil on the ground. It stopped to consume oil as well, as the level stays the same. If it would be turbo seals - they would leak constantly, I'd imagine, cannot miraculously fix itself now and again.

Two questions about the last two answers - what does determine which engine I've got - if Ford's 2.2 looks more like 2.0 Mondeo, than it's not a Ford unit. Mine's got oddly looking EGR system at the back with metal flexi pipes, turbo is tucked behind and under the engine, unlike on my old TDCi Mondeo - at the back top of the engine.

Other question - I've been looking high and low for the butterfly valve in question, as I've found people with similar problems caused by that thing, so I'd say it seems like this kind of a problem. Where is that located and do I access it from under the bonnet or at the back of the engine under the van rather? Even just to inspect it and see if it is the culprit.

As for the stuck injector - this might be the case, yet if I start the van and start driving it without waiting for it to warm up as I used to, it drives spot on with no smoke at all. It will get to the smoky part regardless after it reaches about 1/4 of the temp scale. Stuck injector would rather free itself off after a while if anything and would not be as consistent I'd imagine. This problems seems very repetitive - I can tell when will it start to smoke and to some extent I can prevent it.

One more thing to add. When it was smoky, it cleared after I've stopped to add some diesel. I thought it was due to adding fresh fuel, but then I clicked that it was shut off and restarted after sitting idle for few minutes when I was filling it and paying for fuel. Same thing happened when I parked it for literally five minutes - it was bit smoky, knocked it off, wandered off and came back after few mins, started it - no smoke at all. It was smoking when I arrived despite being at right temperature. When restarted with no smoke, I could revved it all the way up and it will not puff a smoke. Other odd thing is - doesn't matter if it smokes or not, it sounds perfectly healthy and there doesn't seem to be any noticeable power loss...

One funny thing to add - I've noticed when it was smoking white it puffed out a perfect circle - like the cigarette trick - looked funny... Guy behind me seemed amazed with that. :) At least my van's unique. Thanks for help. Will be looking for that butterfly valve now. Any hints welcome.
BX
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by BX »

Ford engine



As far as I can find only the Ford engine was fitted after the update to the van in 2006.
That puma engine gave several problems which in my opinion defy logic. I have seen recoding the injectors on the Transit solve problems similar to what is happening your van. I have also experienced the same with the Ford 1.8 tdci. My knowledge of these engines is very limited as is my knowledge of the DW12 engine. Due to the motor taxation system in Ireland cars with engines over 2.0L were a rarity. The Relay/Boxer were not very common here either. The Ducato normally had the Iveco engine but several later ones had the Ford Transit engine.
aquilaalba
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless

Post by aquilaalba »

Hello again! Definitely Citroen DW12 engine. It's the pre-facelift 2006. Did few things on it yesterday, problem is, I'm not sure what someone else have done in the past. Found the butterfly valve and checked the actuator - it was stuck, since freed moves ok. This is odd though, as when I increase the revs, it closes the air intake - shouldn't this be opposite? It suffocates the engine, not sure if the pipes are right on the electro valves. We've swapped them round, to check if both - the EGR and butterfly - are operational, both work, so no problem there. What should be the layout on them though - I've got it connected as vacuum feed on the top side, valve / EGR on the top centre pipe and exhaust at the bottom? Is this correct? Still smokes like hell, not sure yet what else. Drives spot on, this is what makes me wonder. Oh, and it did try to commit a suicide - on the way to the garage alternator and starter motor packed up. Starter now works semi-ok, alternator needs to be replaced. Another odd thing is that when you take wires off injectors it will run rougher on number 1 and 3, but when you take 2 or 4 off it will stall the engine, despite being at idle or 3000 rpm. Does that point it to anything? Thanks!
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Re: Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi van 2006 - smoky but not powerless...

Post by adamjohnstwins »

Hey there ,
Did you ever find the cause of this problem please.
I have a 2014 2.2hdi engines relay and the symptoms are 100% identical - looks like the smoke is definitely coming from the rear of the engine -
Somewhere near either the exhaust or Turbo area-
However when I switched it off to put it on the ramps .... it went away again 😡

Any progress you have made would be very helpful 😀

Thanks
Adam
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