Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
PugLover
Posts: 32
Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 12:20
Location:
My Cars:

Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by PugLover »

I write this with a heavy heart.
My beloved P reg synergie has only 124k on the clock, and a beautiful XUD9TE engine.
It's rare you find this diesel engine with few miles. It passed the MOT with no problems when I got it last year. None of my pugs ever did that, lol.

However it has REAL issues.
Mainly, getting into first and reverse are an absolute pain in bum to engage.

I think it needs a new clutch.
Problem is I am assuming it's a massive engine out job.

I have a few independant quotes ranging from £500-£800 and as a single Mother I just can't pay that.
Problem is, I can't afford another car either.

I've got my hands dirty before, doing rocker cover gaskets, abs sensor, even re-wired air bag electrics.
I'd love to have a crack at doing this job by myself but I don't know what would be involved.
Has anyone else had this problem and managed to replace the clutch themselves?

Thanks in advance.
Citroen Synergie - 1.9 DT XUD9 TE lump (8 seater, daily driver)
Peugeot 406 ~ 2.0 Petrol estate (Sold in 2014, Missed every day.)
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25370
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4889

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by myglaren »

Tell us where you are and someone may be better able to offer a solution.
PugLover
Posts: 32
Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 12:20
Location:
My Cars:

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by PugLover »

Thank you, I'm in Oxfordshire.
Just rang Pug1off who told me to try the gears with the engine off - and I just did.
NO problem engaging them with the engine off!
Which then eliminates linkages of sorts.

Just looked up and it's got a BVM ML5T gearbox.
Looking at easily £500 of work, not impressed with the car.. :(

Wondering whether to sell on, I'm sure there's a pretty little 205 out there that wants my XUD9 TE engine... Hell - I wanted one for my 205 last year! :)
Citroen Synergie - 1.9 DT XUD9 TE lump (8 seater, daily driver)
Peugeot 406 ~ 2.0 Petrol estate (Sold in 2014, Missed every day.)
electronmirror
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 246
Joined: 27 Oct 2005, 20:42
Location: Berkshire,'tween Reading+Bracknell
My Cars: C5 2.0 (163) diesel Exclusive Tourer 2010
Xantia Exclusive HDI Estate
x 27

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by electronmirror »

When was the gearbox oil last changed? (possibly never with that low mileage :) )

Why do you think it may be the clutch?

I have the same gearbox in my Xantia and had a similar issue with gear selection. Really big improvement achieved by draining the gearbox and refilling with Total BV 75w-80 g/box oil.
Ted
2010 C5 2.0 diesel(163) Exclusive Tourer (118,000miles)
1999 Xantia Exclusive Estate 110 Hdi Mauritius Blue with self peeling lacquer finish (276,174miles)

1991 XM Prestige 2.0 Auto(157,000 miles) gone but not forgotten
PugLover
Posts: 32
Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 12:20
Location:
My Cars:

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by PugLover »

Just have information it is the synchros. Not sure what they are or how they would be replaced?
Citroen Synergie - 1.9 DT XUD9 TE lump (8 seater, daily driver)
Peugeot 406 ~ 2.0 Petrol estate (Sold in 2014, Missed every day.)
electronmirror
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 246
Joined: 27 Oct 2005, 20:42
Location: Berkshire,'tween Reading+Bracknell
My Cars: C5 2.0 (163) diesel Exclusive Tourer 2010
Xantia Exclusive HDI Estate
x 27

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by electronmirror »

If it is the synchro rings, it's a g/box out and dismantle job :(

I'd still be inclined to try an oil change before you commit to any major expense on the g/box. The box hold 1.8litres and the oil is about £7 per litre.
Ted
2010 C5 2.0 diesel(163) Exclusive Tourer (118,000miles)
1999 Xantia Exclusive Estate 110 Hdi Mauritius Blue with self peeling lacquer finish (276,174miles)

1991 XM Prestige 2.0 Auto(157,000 miles) gone but not forgotten
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You can get the right oil from GSF at about £6.50 per litre (which is about £2 cheaper then Citroen/Peugeot). It is BV 75W80 gearbox oil, from Total (which is the same from either supplier).
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by jgra1 »

grab another box maybe? one of those shouldn't cost anything much, just some labour to remove..
changing box and / or clutch is not a big 'engine out' task really.. sure it's several hours, but nothing to bad..

dunno :(
dnsey
Posts: 1538
Joined: 20 Oct 2004, 01:39
Location:
My Cars:
x 19

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by dnsey »

Will worn sychro cones cause baulking when attempting to engage first? Changing down, maybe, but surely not from stationary? Does reverse even have synchromesh?
Sounds possibly like clutch drag to me.
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by jgra1 »

yes good thinking Dn.. OP a clutch cable adjust, and then gearbox oil change as stated above may be enough..

edit
guess this car will have an auto adjust clutch.. so that means a new cable..

how far can the foot be lifted from floor to begin to engage ?
electronmirror
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 246
Joined: 27 Oct 2005, 20:42
Location: Berkshire,'tween Reading+Bracknell
My Cars: C5 2.0 (163) diesel Exclusive Tourer 2010
Xantia Exclusive HDI Estate
x 27

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by electronmirror »

Surely if it's the ML5 g/box it will be hydraulic clutch operation not cable?

Well I never ! Just checked on Citroen service and it is indeed cable operated. :oops:
Ted
2010 C5 2.0 diesel(163) Exclusive Tourer (118,000miles)
1999 Xantia Exclusive Estate 110 Hdi Mauritius Blue with self peeling lacquer finish (276,174miles)

1991 XM Prestige 2.0 Auto(157,000 miles) gone but not forgotten
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2024
Posts: 4731
Joined: 16 Nov 2014, 23:36
Location: Milton Keynes
My Cars: 2006 Peugeot Partner Escapade 1.6HDi.
1988 Renault 25 Monaco 2.0i.
1985 Sinclair C5.
1984 Trabant 601S.
1975 Rover 3500.
1973 AC Model-70.
x 1403
Contact:

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by Zelandeth »

First thing I wojld try is to turn engine off, engage 1st then try to start the engine with clutch depressed fully. If the car tries to move forward, you know the clutch is dragging.

Not sure if it's cable or hydraulic on that car, but it could be something as silly as needing adjustment (don't always assume auto adjusters to be working!) Or a fault in the hydraulic circuit.

Usually I've found worn clutches to slip rather than drag...though I know the clutch on the Xantia at least is a bit odd apparently, and it's the same engine so may also be true here!

Here's hoping it's actually an easy fix!

Stuffed syncro ring by the way I would expect to cause it to crunch while trying to go into gear rather than baulking - reverse doesn't have any syncro either for that matter...so that's a diagnosis I would be taking with a pinch of salt I think unless a gearbox specialist tells me I'm wrong.
Current fleet:
06 Peugeot Partner Escapade 1.6HDi, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

The ML5T gearbox has a hydraulic clutch, while the BE3 is a cable clutch. Both boxes use the same type of gearbox oil.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
electronmirror
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 246
Joined: 27 Oct 2005, 20:42
Location: Berkshire,'tween Reading+Bracknell
My Cars: C5 2.0 (163) diesel Exclusive Tourer 2010
Xantia Exclusive HDI Estate
x 27

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by electronmirror »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:The ML5T gearbox has a hydraulic clutch
......except when used in the Synergie according to Citroen Service
Ted
2010 C5 2.0 diesel(163) Exclusive Tourer (118,000miles)
1999 Xantia Exclusive Estate 110 Hdi Mauritius Blue with self peeling lacquer finish (276,174miles)

1991 XM Prestige 2.0 Auto(157,000 miles) gone but not forgotten
flying clutchman
Posts: 321
Joined: 22 Oct 2009, 12:58
Location: brentwood essex
My Cars:
x 3

Re: Clutch / Gear issues - Can I do this?

Post by flying clutchman »

First things first. Your problem is almost certainly the clutch. Reverse doesn't have a syncro and first only needs the syncro if the vehicle is moving. The fact that it goes in gear with the engine off means it's 95% certain to be the clutch. The bad news is it's unlikely you'd be able to do the job yourself. The ml5 gearbox is quite a heavy box and the job generally is quite physical. You're also unlikely to have all the neccessary tools. The clutch kit is currently listed at £150 on ecp website, so you may find someone to do the job for £400 all in.
Post Reply