I would like to know what models of Citroen have the following, and if poss which are 'top of the range' so to speak.
Peugeot 306 based. 1.9D or TD , passive rear steering, 3 windows along the sides like the Avantage. Or estate versions of same car. And when did they start-stop making them?
Did they make any with abs? air cond? would seriously consider selling mine and getting one if they did.. But otherwise I am keeping it!
Reasons for asking are, I have two friends looking to buy "one like mine" they need not be identical, but I don't know what other models are basically the same? I think the 'Aura' is the right body-engine, but am not certain what their spec is.
Change of topic.. Since I bought my ZX, I have had the cam belt changed, and had it serviced twice at 10,000 miles intervals.. all dash and heater bulbs replaced, 13 inch wheels replaced with 14 inch Citroen ally's (as a nice bonus, the car handles even better now)and front fogs fitted.. I regularly spray all door locks, filler cap hinges and throttle linkage with silicone spray, Any other things I need to know-keep an eye on maintenance-wise?? Any tips on preventative measures would be most welcome..
Cheers... James...
ZX Model ID's. help needed.
Moderator: RichardW
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Simon Canfer
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There are the the well documented heater matrix and cooling system problems - use a minimum 33% genuine Citroen anti gel solution and keep a very close eye on coolant levels dropping. Attend to any dodgy hoses, leaky rad cap and crunchy bits on the radiator immediately before
it becomes a much bigger problem like a head gasket.
As part of a bi-annual brake fluid flush, go around the bleed nipples on the braking system and slacken then, coat the threads with copper grease and re-fit them. The front calipers are a bit bleugh but respond well to an occasional strip and copper grease up.
Keep an eye on the underseal, especially behind the rear wheels, and remove any flaky patches and re-apply fresh. Much cheaper and less hassle than welding repair panels in.
10,000 miles is too far between services on a diesel unless you're having an in-between oil change at 5K. Use the genuine purflex filters - they're only £3 from GSF.
Last thing to keep an eye on is the exhaust. Keep an eye on the bend in the long front pipe just as it turns up to mate with the back box. It gets sprayed with road filth and rots through - then drops off and drags on the ground. Don't ask how I know!
it becomes a much bigger problem like a head gasket.
As part of a bi-annual brake fluid flush, go around the bleed nipples on the braking system and slacken then, coat the threads with copper grease and re-fit them. The front calipers are a bit bleugh but respond well to an occasional strip and copper grease up.
Keep an eye on the underseal, especially behind the rear wheels, and remove any flaky patches and re-apply fresh. Much cheaper and less hassle than welding repair panels in.
10,000 miles is too far between services on a diesel unless you're having an in-between oil change at 5K. Use the genuine purflex filters - they're only £3 from GSF.
Last thing to keep an eye on is the exhaust. Keep an eye on the bend in the long front pipe just as it turns up to mate with the back box. It gets sprayed with road filth and rots through - then drops off and drags on the ground. Don't ask how I know!
All ZX's do have the rear wheel steering you mention. Although it has been incorrectly described as such. Basically the whole rear axle is fitted to the chassis on four rubber mounts. On heavy cornering the mounts give a little and allow the rear axle to turn slightly in the line of the turn. This is why the rear mounts tend to wear on ZX's, they are effectively a moving partly and wear accordingly.
I'm sure there is something I have missed[|)]. Anyone??
I'm sure there is something I have missed[|)]. Anyone??
Hi all, and thanks for all the help. [:)]
First I have printed off all the info about corrosion of the heater matrix etc and the best ways to prevent it. Not much point in finding how to remove the matrix (I looked but failed to find it) should it fail as I prob couldn't effect the replacement myself now..
I have looked at Parkers model info but its rather vague, doesn't tell me when-if the Peugeot chassis base was discontinued? and some things I have already found to be incorrect. I.e. that Aura's have power steering and ally's as standard.. Not so.. The one I went to see had neither.. [V]
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html I went to this site when I bought the car, approx 30 months ago, prior to having it serviced, and gave the url to my service engineer, he removed the orange filter he had just fitted and ordered new stock based on info from this site, the site also refers to periods between oil changes on diesels, seems there are two entirely diff ideas on this subject, I intended to order the book about oils refered to on the site, but forgot. [:I] I will get one asap.
I also had the additives (put in the fuel tank) that are recommended to keep my injectors in good shape, can't say I noticed any diff but the car runs very well as is, so that's prob why, I did put the same stuff but for petrol engines in a lady friends Mazda 1993. 323fi 1600cc auto and it made a big diff, much smoother tick over, no hiccups on starting, (sticky valves I think) and improved acceleration. Fuel consumption was still poor though, only 22 mpg ish. [V] She sold it and bought an Astra 1400 merit auto, sadly its not any better on fuel than the Mazda was. [V]
Due to a squeaking noise, and soot on the front wheel trims when I bought it, I had the brake callipers cleaned and greased up, plus new pads fitted, I intend to get this repeated soon after xmas as the prob has come back, I.e. slight squeak on front brakes when setting off and intermittent on journeys, stops if I pump the brakes lightly, but returns after a few miles..
Re rear wheel steering, it feels more like oversteer? or driving on very soft tires? and I found it a bit scary at first! So I took it for a run out in the country, gave it some welly and got used to the feel of it, its not really very noticeable unless you corner hard. As for turning circle at low speeds, mine is crap too!
Thanks again for all your help. I have printed it all off, plus other stuff, and tucked it inside my "Haynes" for future ref.
It does appear, having read lots of stuff on here, that the 1.9D engine is the most trouble free? It's the first car I have had with a diesel engine fitted, and personaly, I'm delighted with it so far. Ok so it's a bit slow, but as I have had dozens of speeding fines over the years [:I] its high time I slowed down a bit and this car helps! [^] Abs would be nice though...
Cheers.. James...
PS. Gareth, still no sign of my seat, but thanks for the info. Sorry they din have what you wanted...
First I have printed off all the info about corrosion of the heater matrix etc and the best ways to prevent it. Not much point in finding how to remove the matrix (I looked but failed to find it) should it fail as I prob couldn't effect the replacement myself now..
I have looked at Parkers model info but its rather vague, doesn't tell me when-if the Peugeot chassis base was discontinued? and some things I have already found to be incorrect. I.e. that Aura's have power steering and ally's as standard.. Not so.. The one I went to see had neither.. [V]
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html I went to this site when I bought the car, approx 30 months ago, prior to having it serviced, and gave the url to my service engineer, he removed the orange filter he had just fitted and ordered new stock based on info from this site, the site also refers to periods between oil changes on diesels, seems there are two entirely diff ideas on this subject, I intended to order the book about oils refered to on the site, but forgot. [:I] I will get one asap.
I also had the additives (put in the fuel tank) that are recommended to keep my injectors in good shape, can't say I noticed any diff but the car runs very well as is, so that's prob why, I did put the same stuff but for petrol engines in a lady friends Mazda 1993. 323fi 1600cc auto and it made a big diff, much smoother tick over, no hiccups on starting, (sticky valves I think) and improved acceleration. Fuel consumption was still poor though, only 22 mpg ish. [V] She sold it and bought an Astra 1400 merit auto, sadly its not any better on fuel than the Mazda was. [V]
Due to a squeaking noise, and soot on the front wheel trims when I bought it, I had the brake callipers cleaned and greased up, plus new pads fitted, I intend to get this repeated soon after xmas as the prob has come back, I.e. slight squeak on front brakes when setting off and intermittent on journeys, stops if I pump the brakes lightly, but returns after a few miles..
Re rear wheel steering, it feels more like oversteer? or driving on very soft tires? and I found it a bit scary at first! So I took it for a run out in the country, gave it some welly and got used to the feel of it, its not really very noticeable unless you corner hard. As for turning circle at low speeds, mine is crap too!
Thanks again for all your help. I have printed it all off, plus other stuff, and tucked it inside my "Haynes" for future ref.
It does appear, having read lots of stuff on here, that the 1.9D engine is the most trouble free? It's the first car I have had with a diesel engine fitted, and personaly, I'm delighted with it so far. Ok so it's a bit slow, but as I have had dozens of speeding fines over the years [:I] its high time I slowed down a bit and this car helps! [^] Abs would be nice though...
Cheers.. James...
PS. Gareth, still no sign of my seat, but thanks for the info. Sorry they din have what you wanted...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by James.UK</i>
Re rear wheel steering, it feels more like oversteer? or driving on very soft tires? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't think the rear wheel steering has THAT much effect. But compared to some cars (say, a Vectra) the ZX handles very neutrally. That is, it understeers when pushed hard, but the whole car tends to run wide, not just the front end.
Re rear wheel steering, it feels more like oversteer? or driving on very soft tires? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't think the rear wheel steering has THAT much effect. But compared to some cars (say, a Vectra) the ZX handles very neutrally. That is, it understeers when pushed hard, but the whole car tends to run wide, not just the front end.
Yes, James - the 1.9D engine is a peach.
But it won't be if you stick with 10K oil and filter changes
5K is more than enough on an indirect injection diesel like the 1.9D. Compared to a new HDI motor, they dirty their oil very quickly - Citroen recommend 6K changes, with 3K for severe service. Most people come under the severe service category.
Shame to spoil a nice engine for the sake of a few oil changes. If you DIY, the filters are £3 and GSF will sell you 5l of semi synthetic oil for about a tenner.
But it won't be if you stick with 10K oil and filter changes
5K is more than enough on an indirect injection diesel like the 1.9D. Compared to a new HDI motor, they dirty their oil very quickly - Citroen recommend 6K changes, with 3K for severe service. Most people come under the severe service category.
Shame to spoil a nice engine for the sake of a few oil changes. If you DIY, the filters are £3 and GSF will sell you 5l of semi synthetic oil for about a tenner.
Hi again,
Sl4yer, not sure why your ZX understeers, but mine behaves exactly as described, if anything it oversteers slightly, but I think that's due to the rear end steering system, it was even more noticeable when I had 13 inch wheels and "deeper tires" the 14 inch wheel with shallower tire made it more stable. Well less noticeable anyway..
The effect is hard to describe, at first I just got a gut feeling that something was wrong with the car, poss chassis damage, misaligned wheels etc, untill the owner told me about the rear steering system. Then as I say I took in for a run to where I had room to corner fast without risk of hitting anything if I "lost it" and played around till I got used to its handling. As formerly stated its not very noticeable at low speeds, but I think you would have to seriously abuse the car before you got it's rear end to slide...
Hi 'arry B', I hear what you are saying, [:D] and in future will change the oil and filters at 3k intervals. Anyone know where I can buy finer filters for it? I have never seen filters "graded" by umm. "size particles it allows though" if you know what I mean, but someone must know? and how much wear would we save by using a finer filter? Obviously the old oil would have to be thoroughly cleaned out, otherwise any sludge would quickly clog the finer filter and cause serious problems.. But untill I read about it I always thought a filter was a filter and never gave it a second thought.. This made me seriously rethink!! (quote from http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html )
Fram Extra Guard.....
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it. --End of quote....
Maybe we could make a list of "recommended spare parts" or "parts to avoid fitting?" based on the knowledge all you experienced Citroen owners have acquired over many years? I think it would be a good idea.
Anyone happen to know if its possible to "upgrade" ZX brakes by fitting parts from a newer model? bigger disks? better callipers? I don't like the fact that my front brakes tend to get sticky now and then and judging from the grey dust on my front wheels it must happen quite a lot.. Although the chrome ally wheels may attract the dust in some way and make the prob look worse than it really is? (a friend does chrome powder-stove spraying , and did them for me, got to watch the temp though or you can melt them! They dont look any better though, because they are always covered in a film of grey dust. [:I] duhh)..
Just a thought, would it be poss to fit a removable panel on top of the dash somewhere to give easy access to dashboard bulbs? I made one in the boot of an "S" type jag years ago, to get access to the inboard brake pads, saved dropping the entire rear end and turned a 4 hour job into a 20 min one.
Cheers.. James..
Sl4yer, not sure why your ZX understeers, but mine behaves exactly as described, if anything it oversteers slightly, but I think that's due to the rear end steering system, it was even more noticeable when I had 13 inch wheels and "deeper tires" the 14 inch wheel with shallower tire made it more stable. Well less noticeable anyway..
The effect is hard to describe, at first I just got a gut feeling that something was wrong with the car, poss chassis damage, misaligned wheels etc, untill the owner told me about the rear steering system. Then as I say I took in for a run to where I had room to corner fast without risk of hitting anything if I "lost it" and played around till I got used to its handling. As formerly stated its not very noticeable at low speeds, but I think you would have to seriously abuse the car before you got it's rear end to slide...
Hi 'arry B', I hear what you are saying, [:D] and in future will change the oil and filters at 3k intervals. Anyone know where I can buy finer filters for it? I have never seen filters "graded" by umm. "size particles it allows though" if you know what I mean, but someone must know? and how much wear would we save by using a finer filter? Obviously the old oil would have to be thoroughly cleaned out, otherwise any sludge would quickly clog the finer filter and cause serious problems.. But untill I read about it I always thought a filter was a filter and never gave it a second thought.. This made me seriously rethink!! (quote from http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html )
Fram Extra Guard.....
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it. --End of quote....
Maybe we could make a list of "recommended spare parts" or "parts to avoid fitting?" based on the knowledge all you experienced Citroen owners have acquired over many years? I think it would be a good idea.
Anyone happen to know if its possible to "upgrade" ZX brakes by fitting parts from a newer model? bigger disks? better callipers? I don't like the fact that my front brakes tend to get sticky now and then and judging from the grey dust on my front wheels it must happen quite a lot.. Although the chrome ally wheels may attract the dust in some way and make the prob look worse than it really is? (a friend does chrome powder-stove spraying , and did them for me, got to watch the temp though or you can melt them! They dont look any better though, because they are always covered in a film of grey dust. [:I] duhh)..
Just a thought, would it be poss to fit a removable panel on top of the dash somewhere to give easy access to dashboard bulbs? I made one in the boot of an "S" type jag years ago, to get access to the inboard brake pads, saved dropping the entire rear end and turned a 4 hour job into a 20 min one.
Cheers.. James..
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RichardW
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'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl - x 996
James,
Just use the cit recommended Perflux filter, as supplied by German Swedish & French at about 1/3 the cost at Citroen (and even in a Citroen box sometimes!). These are good filters, and will see the engine well past 200k with good oil and regular changes.
I think you can fit the uprated brakes from a Volcane - ventilated disks. The calipers still stick though!
Consider EBC greenstuff pads which give good stopping power, but no black dust (not a function of sticking calipers - ALL disc brakes make black dust).
I doubt you can modify the dash board (unless you want to joint Butchers R Us!) - but as it only needs doing say once every 100,000 miles / 10 years it's not that much of a hardship really!
Just use the cit recommended Perflux filter, as supplied by German Swedish & French at about 1/3 the cost at Citroen (and even in a Citroen box sometimes!). These are good filters, and will see the engine well past 200k with good oil and regular changes.
I think you can fit the uprated brakes from a Volcane - ventilated disks. The calipers still stick though!
Consider EBC greenstuff pads which give good stopping power, but no black dust (not a function of sticking calipers - ALL disc brakes make black dust).
I doubt you can modify the dash board (unless you want to joint Butchers R Us!) - but as it only needs doing say once every 100,000 miles / 10 years it's not that much of a hardship really!
Hiya Richard, and thanks.
Recommended filter noted and will be fitted in future. [^]
I will place a "wanted item" and try to get some ventilated disks plus callipers from a Volcane.. And will try the EBC greenstuff pads.. I think sticky good brakes are better than sticky bad ones. [:D] lol..
As for "Butchers r us", that may well come true if anymore of my bloody bulbs blow!! [}:)] Most were out when I bought the car. so I had them replaced at a cost of £70, 30 months ago.. Early last spring, March I think.. I had them replaced again as most had blown, including ALL heater control bulbs, another £70! and now it looks as though two of those 4 have gone again. plus its hard to read my temp gauge in the dark. grrrrr... Why can you never find an angle grinder or crow bar when you need one? [:o)] lol.
Cheers.. James..
Recommended filter noted and will be fitted in future. [^]
I will place a "wanted item" and try to get some ventilated disks plus callipers from a Volcane.. And will try the EBC greenstuff pads.. I think sticky good brakes are better than sticky bad ones. [:D] lol..
As for "Butchers r us", that may well come true if anymore of my bloody bulbs blow!! [}:)] Most were out when I bought the car. so I had them replaced at a cost of £70, 30 months ago.. Early last spring, March I think.. I had them replaced again as most had blown, including ALL heater control bulbs, another £70! and now it looks as though two of those 4 have gone again. plus its hard to read my temp gauge in the dark. grrrrr... Why can you never find an angle grinder or crow bar when you need one? [:o)] lol.
Cheers.. James..
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Simon Canfer
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JamesUK - Regarding the Aura spec, I can only guess that the Aura you went to see was really a "Reflex"! I had a '92 Aura and it had power steering and alloys. Power steering essential on any diesel in my opinion!
Launch models were (in ascending order) Reflex, Avantage, Aura, Volcane. Reflex nice and basic with a lovely red trim on the dash!! Later "facelift" cars (look for the different bonnet grille) were Dimension and SX. SX had the Volcane-type air dam, keypad immobiliser. These cars had airbag and side impact bars (which seem to me to add quite a bit of weight!)
The Peugeot "connection" arises because as I understand it Peugeot and Citroen are the same company, part of the PSA group. So to save costs they use the same "floorpan" on many cars. The ZX has many, many parts common with the 306. Just checkout the 306 and ZX suspension and engine parts from GSF! But compare the used prices 306 to ZX and you'll see which is the better used buy. Somehow Pug got masses of street cred from their 205 rustbucket.
Just my happeny-worth...
Simon
1998 ZX SX TD
Launch models were (in ascending order) Reflex, Avantage, Aura, Volcane. Reflex nice and basic with a lovely red trim on the dash!! Later "facelift" cars (look for the different bonnet grille) were Dimension and SX. SX had the Volcane-type air dam, keypad immobiliser. These cars had airbag and side impact bars (which seem to me to add quite a bit of weight!)
The Peugeot "connection" arises because as I understand it Peugeot and Citroen are the same company, part of the PSA group. So to save costs they use the same "floorpan" on many cars. The ZX has many, many parts common with the 306. Just checkout the 306 and ZX suspension and engine parts from GSF! But compare the used prices 306 to ZX and you'll see which is the better used buy. Somehow Pug got masses of street cred from their 205 rustbucket.
Just my happeny-worth...
Simon
1998 ZX SX TD
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Dave Burns
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- x 2
Just a word or two on the rear wheel steering mumbo jumbo that crops up occasionaly, fist of all most suspenson systems are rubber mounted and secondly many car manufacturers utilise passive rear wheel steering, it makes cars safer.
But its got nothing to do with the subframe swinging around on big lumps of rubber, the ZX subframe rubbers can get into a right old state when they are totaly goosed, knocking and banging, and the rearmost ones can and often do detach completely, yet even in this state the car still drives well and the driver is oblivious to the actual condition of the rubbers, save for some knocking occasionaly.
Can you imagine how catastrophic these cars would be if they actualy did steer on these rubbers, when they were worn out you wouldn't be able to keep the buggers going in a straight line if that were the case.
Passive rear wheel steering on the ZX is achieved by altering the angle of the stub axle in the trailing arm so that its not parallel to the trailing arms bearings, it is arranged in such a fashion so as to bring the outside wheel to maximum toe in under severe compresion of the suspension, the inside wheel goes the other way, towards toe out as the body rolls and the arm extends.
There are several ways of achieving this and some are quite complicated with links and ball joints, even being able to toe the wheel out during initial turn in, then as the G force increases through the turn reversing the affect and toeing the wheel in to reduce side slip.
But the ZX's suspension is of a very basic design and the only way of getting predictable rear wheel steer from it is to angle the stub axle.
Semi trailing arms were the most common method of rear wheel steering for a number of years, you didn't hear the car makers harping on about it though, perhaps only those that needed such hype to get the sales going would resort to telling its customers they were getting something different, when really they weren't.
Dave
But its got nothing to do with the subframe swinging around on big lumps of rubber, the ZX subframe rubbers can get into a right old state when they are totaly goosed, knocking and banging, and the rearmost ones can and often do detach completely, yet even in this state the car still drives well and the driver is oblivious to the actual condition of the rubbers, save for some knocking occasionaly.
Can you imagine how catastrophic these cars would be if they actualy did steer on these rubbers, when they were worn out you wouldn't be able to keep the buggers going in a straight line if that were the case.
Passive rear wheel steering on the ZX is achieved by altering the angle of the stub axle in the trailing arm so that its not parallel to the trailing arms bearings, it is arranged in such a fashion so as to bring the outside wheel to maximum toe in under severe compresion of the suspension, the inside wheel goes the other way, towards toe out as the body rolls and the arm extends.
There are several ways of achieving this and some are quite complicated with links and ball joints, even being able to toe the wheel out during initial turn in, then as the G force increases through the turn reversing the affect and toeing the wheel in to reduce side slip.
But the ZX's suspension is of a very basic design and the only way of getting predictable rear wheel steer from it is to angle the stub axle.
Semi trailing arms were the most common method of rear wheel steering for a number of years, you didn't hear the car makers harping on about it though, perhaps only those that needed such hype to get the sales going would resort to telling its customers they were getting something different, when really they weren't.
Dave
I seem to remember seeing that some fancier cars (mainly some Hondas and Nissans) had some sort of active RWS system. There was one that actually steered the rear wheels in different directions depending on the roadspeed.
But as I said above, and Dave Burns has made clear, the PASSIVE rear wheel steering on the ZX does not make that much difference. Especially when it relies on rubber parts that are often approaching ten years old by now. A ZX will ultimately understeer if pushed too hard (as will almost all FWD cars). But as I said above, it hangs on well (neutrally) longer than some other cars. Saying that, its extremely hard to unstick my 1.4 on a clean, dry road. Power steering would help [:p]
But as I said above, and Dave Burns has made clear, the PASSIVE rear wheel steering on the ZX does not make that much difference. Especially when it relies on rubber parts that are often approaching ten years old by now. A ZX will ultimately understeer if pushed too hard (as will almost all FWD cars). But as I said above, it hangs on well (neutrally) longer than some other cars. Saying that, its extremely hard to unstick my 1.4 on a clean, dry road. Power steering would help [:p]