Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
mardybum
Posts: 33
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 20:52
Location: GUNNESS, Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire
My Cars:
Contact:

Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by mardybum »

Bit of an odd one, and with it being dark out, having no room in the workshop to check it over, or a real knowledge of front wheel drive, I thought I'd ask you bright folks here...

So driving back from work this evening, and the same noise appears again that I had noticed before parking up on Christmas Eve. It sounded a lot like the front pads wanted changing, you know, that metal on metal rubbing that indicates money needs to part with the warm pocket it became acustomed to.

I thought nothing of it, as I've driven back with other vehicles in worse conditions.

Alas, it doesn't seem to be anything to do with the braking system. The steering will try to grab and pull to the right for a brief second, then it'll be fine. Depressing the clutch to change gear causes what I can only describe as an entire drivetrain shudder which is felt, and quite well seen, through the steering wheel.

First thoughts are, a CV joint has collapsed, but having spent my entire life driving rear wheel drive vehicles and not needing to worry about the front axle doing anything but steering, I can't come up with anything else.

Would anyone out there have any pointers to check in the morning?

I'm off to pick my dad up in the morning, at 70 he's owned more cars than I can think of, and knows his way around FWD and Citroen's like the back of his hand, but a starting point would be nice.

Cheers,
Steve
sparksie
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 22:35
Location: R.O.I.
My Cars:
x 33

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by sparksie »

Hopefully that'll turn out to be a seized CV.
Another, far more costly, possibility would be the diff, or even the crank shaft thrust bearing.
What car/engine are we talking about?
Sparksie

2000 Xantia 1.9TurboD
mardybum
Posts: 33
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 20:52
Location: GUNNESS, Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire
My Cars:
Contact:

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by mardybum »

Thanks for the reply sparksie!

The car/engine combination is a 2000 Xantia 2.0HDi(90).

I'm hoping it is the CV joint. The engine is steady and doesn't move when revved at standstill, nothing looked loose in a quick roadside check with a torch.

If it does turn out the be the diff, a new box will probably be the easier option...
sparksie
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 22:35
Location: R.O.I.
My Cars:
x 33

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by sparksie »

mardybum wrote:Thanks for the reply sparksie!

The car/engine combination is a 2000 Xantia 2.0HDi(90).

I'm hoping it is the CV joint. The engine is steady and doesn't move when revved at standstill, nothing looked loose in a quick roadside check with a torch.

If it does turn out the be the diff, a new box will probably be the easier option...
Hi mardybum

Cit (pronounced "Kit" and the first car I've EVER named) is a 2000 Xantia 1.9 TurboD.
Despite my profession, she's the only real Citroen I've had any dealings with for many years, so I'm on a bit of a learning curve.
She has had a mount fail and defied all our normal methods of tracing it. She even got through a test with it, despite my specifically asking the tester to look out for it.
The common one to go soft is the bottom one nearest the bulkhead, which lives in a more-or-less permanent oil mist. We've changed lots of them on Peugeots.
On Cit, however, it turned out to be the top one at the timing belt end.
We found it by driving up and down the yard with the bonnet up, while watching what happened when the judder occurred.
I'm not suggesting you should do that, particularly in winter, and certainly not in a public place.
All of the above probably a red herring, though, as I doubt whether it could cause a brake pad scraping noise, unless it was very obviously falling out!
On the other hand, CVs don't usually do that either. They tend to click, when under power and turned close to full lock.
Scraping could be something in a front hub, perhaps even a stone kicked up from the road.
You really need to get the front wheels off the ground and see can you replicate it.
Sparksie

2000 Xantia 1.9TurboD
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by citronut »

sounds to me what you are getting on depressing the clutch is a thrust bearing fault/failing
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
mardybum
Posts: 33
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 20:52
Location: GUNNESS, Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire
My Cars:
Contact:

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by mardybum »

O/S Drive Shaft is the problem.

Or rather, that is the diagnosis we've given it. All seemed well with a visual inspection this morning, so we went for a test drive, and the problem presented itself after approx 5 miles, which I thought was strange.

* The steering violently pulls to the right at random moments.
* When changing gear, the steering wheel vibrates at an alarming rate. It feels like you're driving over a cobbled street.
* On slowing to a stop, there is a notable "flap flap flap flap flap, clunk", also a "tsk, tsk, tsk" as if a pad is dragging.

Cannot say I've ever experienced such a set of symptoms before, but upon returning, when had a further look at the driveshafts.

The passenger side is tight, no play, no clunks.
The drivers side, however, can be rotated 10-15mm in either direction and there is a notable clunk too.

So... Finding a replacement, on New Years Eve, oh the joy!!

ECP website says £180 or thereabouts. Rang a mate at the local branch and he is going to check with suppliers on Friday as to what the differences between the ABS and Non-ABS versions are, as there is a £50 difference, if all the difference is, is the reluctor rings for the ABS sensors, then I shall be swapping these over myself.

Had a squeak on the drivers side for a number of months, but thought nothing of it and that it was just the brakes catching every now and then, but it seems it was the start of this, unfortunately.
sparksie
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 22:35
Location: R.O.I.
My Cars:
x 33

Re: Symptom diagnosis? Drivetrain shudder

Post by sparksie »

Well, good to have it narrowed down a bit, but don't be surprised if the CV alone doesn't fix it.
There's a carrier bearing for the drive shaft, running across the back of the engine. This may well be in trouble.
You may also find the inner joint is in bother. That comes as part of a shaft. For £50 extra, it may be that you're getting a shaft assembly, rather than just the outer joint.
It would probably be worth pulling the shaft and examining it thoroughly before ordering any parts!
Sparksie

2000 Xantia 1.9TurboD
Post Reply