Picasso Turbo Replacement (Not EGR)

[tomthered]

Guys -- A pre fitting the Turbo question.

Next to the top banjo bolt on the left is like a oval steel plate on the Turbo and this connects into like a plastic box the sits between the Turbo and the engine. This box seems to have a tube on it that runs to the radiator at the front of the car in an L shape. Virtually next to the banjo bolt is Torx type very short bolt that looks impossible to get at. What sort of removal device does that need as the other side has a normal bolt with a head that could be removed with a socket set, but the left hand one is different?

On my picture (post 10) its the flange at the top right of the picture that has a threaded hole at the bottom and the bolt goes through the bit at the top. Its the little bolt with a torx type head on it that I need to know how to remove or do I just cut it off, and if so how?

In addition both of the new Banjo bolts seem to have filters in them, should I remove both filters? Also the both seem to have like a spline thing bolt in them, how are these removed? Forgive my ignorance just want to be prepared so if I need to buy something to remove stuff I can get it beforehand. I fear starting the job and getting stuck half way through because we do not have the right tool.

As my son in law is being good enough to replace it I don't want to land him in it so to speak!

[hamster99]

Hi Tom
I have replaced the turbo on a C3 with this engine so hopefully it is the same as the Picasso and this will be useful?
The turbo picture you uploaded is different from the one I have changed which is possible as it is a different model but I presume you used the registration and VIN number to get the correct one.
The plastic box you talk about is the connection into the air intake system for the engine and the large pipe at the front probably goes into an inter cooler next to the radiator, usually through what is known as a dosing valve which is a system for mixing the air flow using electro valves and sensors. The pipe that is connected to the turbo flange should be disconnected from the dosing valve end first and you should then be able to get at and loosen the bolts. Yes it's a strange bolt but that's the French designers for you! You may need to remove the dosing valve completely to do this part of the job which on the C3 was a bit tricky as it has a very weird bracket arrangement where the fixings are completely hidden and you can't tell how it is fitted. The Citroen Service site does have instructions on how to remove the dosing valve from its bracket but I don't have access to it at the moment. Maybe someone else could check it for you.
You need to remove ALL filters from the turbo oil feed pipe and the strainer mesh from the oil pick up in the sump. You should be able to get RTV sealant from ECP or GSF or other motoring suppliers. It is black and get a tube for use in a sealant gun, just like silicon for tiling etc!! Clean the sump face and then apply a continuous bead around the edge just inside the slightly raised line running around the sump mating face. Make sure it's continuous around the holes too. Leave it for 15 minutes to form a slight skin and then refit to engine.
To do this job I would allow a full day, especially if it is being done outside in the weather!
Good luck.
Rob.

[tomthered]

cheers for the info Rob. Yes I checked the part number on the existing turbo and made sure it matched the one I got. I assume that it should be correct, from info it appears this turbo is used on all sorts of cars. Looking at the duff one on the engine the new one looks the same, however, It was the weird little bolt / thread which I was wondering about. I don't want to not have all the tools to hand, hence why I was asking in case I need to buy something. I will certainly pick up some sealant from ECP.

Not quite sure what you mean by "The pipe that is connected to the turbo flange should be disconnected from the dosing valve end first and you should then be able to get at and loosen the bolts." Are you saying that if we remove the right hand proper bolt from the flange it becomes easier to get at the weird bolt on the left? Have taken a picture to show you the weird bolt. (sorry guys cannot figure out how to attach the picture directly into the post)

[img][IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/tomthered/20150101_141655_zps76bf71c8.jpg[/img][/img]


EDIT - Is this the sealant? http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-a ... &0&cc5_142

[KP]

Here you go Tom


The top bolt IIRC has some torx part on the left hand side. I think this is due to access being so poor on it that a Torx head allows enough torque on it to screw it on and take it off with minimal damage to the head.

I have some torx screwdrivers you can borrow if needed as i think it looked like a T25/30 size.

Also i have some exhaust paste which you may need for the turbo outlet to downpipe/dpf section to ensure a good seal.

As mentioned, poking the filters out is worth doing even with new Banjo bolts

In this temp as well if you clean the sump outside take it INSIDE to warm a little and then apply the RTV as i've seen in the past at low temps it takes ages for it to start to get a skin or go off and being inside where it is that bit warmer helps a lot Once its on and the engine is run upto temp it will go properly off and seal nicely

[tomthered]

Is it possible to actually undo that little weird bolt (the one I circled) as it looks as though you cannot get anything into it due to the silver foil around that pipe being in the way?

[KP]

That's the bit I'm talking about Tom, the circled bit looked like it had a torx head on it

[sparksie]

Hi
Something to be careful of, using sealants:
Use them sparingly. Excess sealant that squeezes out from the joint can, and does sometimes, break off and get swept around in the oilways. these little rubber blobs can block narrow pipes, oil spray bars and the like. The pump strainer is not always enough to stop them.
The filter should be fine enough, but somehow often isn't, so the only safe thing is to keep the stuff where it's supposed to be, especially as you're removing the secondary filters from the turbo oil feed. You don't want any rubber debris getting up there...

[KP]

It depends massively on how oil flows around the engine. Some engines pick up and push through the filter into the engine but most have he filter towards the end of the oils route through the engine.

Scrape as much of the old stuff off as you can and use an old Brillo pad or piece of sandpaper to toughen the surfaces up and then wipe clean with a bit of petrol on a rag.

Cleaning out the visible parts of the bottom end of the engine is good as well and easily done with an old rag with some more petrol on it

Some people have used diesel in the past for such cleaning but I always say petrol is better as it quickly evaporates even in cooler weather and when the engine starts to warm the last bits will quickly evaporate

[hamster99]

Not quite sure what you mean by "The pipe that is connected to the turbo flange should be disconnected from the dosing valve end first and you should then be able to get at and loosen the bolts." Are you saying that if we remove the right hand proper bolt from the flange it becomes easier to get at the weird bolt on the left? Have taken a picture to show you the weird bolt. (sorry guys cannot figure out how to attach the picture directly into the post)

The left hand bolt in the picture, the strange one, should be accessible with a torx screwdriver and shouldn't be that tight to undo. You need to disconnect the other end from the dosing valve bit and then loosen both the right hand normal bolt and the left hand strange one. The plastic tube flange has a cut out which allows the tube to pivot on the right hand bolt and pass over the strange bolt. You can't see the cut out easily as it is below the strange bolt but you'll see what I mean once you loosen everything. Do you have a Haynes manual? Although not always accurate (hence known by many as the BOL -book of lies) it is generally useful for most stuff.

EDIT - Is this the sealant? http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-a ... &0&cc5_142

Thought I got mine from ECP but checked and it was from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-0236- ... B0064YMBYE

Rob

[tomthered]

Thanks for that Will and Rob. I have checked and he says he has them so hopefully we can do it. We take off the bolt on the right then undo the torx head one right? Will get some exhaust paste just in case and sealant from Halfords that is specific for Gasket making. I assume that would be ok.

So the dosing valve is the black bit that runs off to the left of where that flange is with the weird bolt on which has the silver foil type stuff on?

[tomthered]

UPDATE on TURBO REPLACEMENT

The turbo has been swapped and everything went fine for about 20-30 minutes. It was fine and had full power, however now I have like a whistling from a black box that sits between the engine cover and the heat sink over the CAT / exhaust. It sounds like a police siren when the accelerator is pressed.

There is more power than there was before the turbo was changed, but its not at full power. Will has suggested there may be an air leak on the Turbo or a pipe somewhere. With that in mind I got someone to rev the car and there is a heavy vibration in the middle of this box when its whining.

Has anyone any suggestions what it could be? I have taken off the pipe to the end of the turbo to check for any play and that seems perfect to me?

Does this have any valves in that could be stuck causing this vibration?

Its this box I have circled here:--

Anyone's help would be most welcome thanks in advance

[RichardW]

Citroen call it an air resonator - which it certainly seems to be doing at the moment!! Did you remove and drain the intercooler? Possible that it is full of oil in the bottom and restricting the air flow?

[tomthered]

Where is the intercooler, the bit on the left? I have a feeling its where the two big hoses go into like a tiny radiator on the left, just looked at one on Ebay. Are they hard to remove? It seems weird that its vibrating between them two nodules on the black box!!

[KP]

Oil bypass from the turbo spindle bearing is possible as the turbo that was on it had a shaft that moved around like a stick in a bucket intercooler off shouldn't be too bad on that but maybe best from underneath...

[tomthered]

Oh you mean oil got past the Turbo into the Intercooler path as the bearing was definitely worn out when we got it off? If that is the case why would it start and run alright for 20-30 minutes, although when it first started there were puffs of black smoke when he revved it and greyish smoke till it warmed. This was after we left it idling for about 12 minutes to give time to bed in and warm up. The smoke eventually disappeared and I suppose we could remove the resonator and look inside to see what is going on. Why would oil in the intercooler cause the loss of power, is it because there is not enough air and its all oil?

How is it removed, does it just slot out as I saw two locating lugs at the bottom for one I saw on Ebay ??? Do I then tip it upside down to get oil out - how is that oil removed from it then? Any ideas on time to remove this - only cos I need to know how long it would take to see if its feasible at night time due to dark and weather maybe its best waiting until next weekend!

Sorry for all these questions people, Not doing it tonight though, too fed up!! Just wish there was a way of magicing it all on!!!