Hi. I have a 1995 Xantia 1.9 and the ride has been a bit of a pig lately. I foolishly let a back street engineer who said he knew what he was doing try and fix my suspension problems. Well he managed to strip most of the connections to the height correctors OK but did nothing useful and I got the car back worse than when I gave it to him. I took it to a Citroen dealer to fix but thought that the £1,100 quote for replacement spheres & height correctors a bit steep, particularly as they said that the front pair of spheres needed replacing even though they were barely two months old.
The upshot is I do it myself. Job is to replace both height correctors and all sphere apart from the front pair. BTW I have searched the forum & found some useful stuff but wouldn’t mind something definitive if possible.
I’ve replaced the front height corrector OK. To my mind it all seemed a bit easy and I’m worried I haven’t done it correctly. I connected a spring to a rod that goes towards the rear of the car and also a plastic ‘cup’ connector to a ‘static’ (IE it don’t move!) rod bolted/welded onto the car. Also of course three small fluid pipes (with molegrips unfortunately – see above) and what looks like an overflow tube. Is that it? If so OK but I will need to adjust the ride height at some point and would like to know how I do that. Also what the height should be. (I have a Haynes manual but have a helthy mistrust of them)
I have yet to do the rear corrector but think I am clear on that procedure for the most part though I wouldn’t mind a clear walkthrough if anyone has time to respond.
I’ve got the tips by Anders & Jon on bleeding & changing rear spheres so that seems OK.
Would it make any difference what order I did the work in? IE L & R spheres first then, anti-sink then the height corrector?
As for replacing the rear height corrector I haven’t seen it yet but it sounds awkward and I’m still not sure what height the car has to be for me to work on it. After I’ve seen it I may understand the forum advice. Actually I’m not sure I wan’t to take the damn thing out at all as it seems I’ll just be waiting for the car to drop onto my stands After which I’ll probably need to nip home & change my underwear.
I note someone said they had eight spheres on their Xantia. Am I getting all mixed up here? I thought I had six IE a pair at the front plus what you call an accumulator at front centre; then a pair at the back plus one at rear centre that you call an anti-sink sphere. If this is not the case where are the other two, what do they do and where are they hiding?
Finally. I’ll need to adjust the height and I really can’t get this straight from the topic replies I’ve seen. It would help if I knew what did what. I’ve seen two thin rods under the car that seem to connect the ‘lever’ inside the car to the height correctors. I know the rod going forward is connected to a spring on the front height corrector unit. I’ve also connected a plastic ‘cup’ component to another spring or tension clip to the height corrector (BTW the old height corrector had no tension on it whatsoever, IE it flapped around loose – that was bad, right?) I just cant see what can be move or turned or whatever to adjust the height. Any help about this would be great.
Anyone with any info that might help me it'd be appreciated.
Replacing 1995 Xantia 1.9 height correctors etc
Moderator: RichardW
Smiffy -
Before digging into detailed discussions - please allow me to question if you have read this very informative Citroen document by Gabor :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide.html
This takes you into a tour from the simple 1. generation to the latest C5 generation of the Citroen hydraulic suspension - going into deep technical details.
I have to advice you that this document in fact need to be read closely - repeatedly - as it takes surprisingly long time to digest all the dense info found here.
But truly - you end up with a much better - if not a thorough - understanding of the hydraulic system fitted to your car in particular.
Clearly from your submissions you are the technical minded DIY'er - who wants detailed facts to understand how your car functions - and to do things right.
With my 14 y's of hydraulic Citroen DIY - I still run into some pretty nice surprises - and definately started off with much uncertainty and lot's of mistakes. This you can NOT be "educated" or read off to avoid - you MUST do your own hands-on experience - to fully understand things.
I'm certain you'll experience the Citroen hydraulic system will bring you to both extremes : some much frightened work you'll find a piece of cake - other work you never expected to be a problem may in fact become your Waterloo.
- but that's exactly how you learn the best way [:)]
Before digging into detailed discussions - please allow me to question if you have read this very informative Citroen document by Gabor :
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide.html
This takes you into a tour from the simple 1. generation to the latest C5 generation of the Citroen hydraulic suspension - going into deep technical details.
I have to advice you that this document in fact need to be read closely - repeatedly - as it takes surprisingly long time to digest all the dense info found here.
But truly - you end up with a much better - if not a thorough - understanding of the hydraulic system fitted to your car in particular.
Clearly from your submissions you are the technical minded DIY'er - who wants detailed facts to understand how your car functions - and to do things right.
With my 14 y's of hydraulic Citroen DIY - I still run into some pretty nice surprises - and definately started off with much uncertainty and lot's of mistakes. This you can NOT be "educated" or read off to avoid - you MUST do your own hands-on experience - to fully understand things.
I'm certain you'll experience the Citroen hydraulic system will bring you to both extremes : some much frightened work you'll find a piece of cake - other work you never expected to be a problem may in fact become your Waterloo.
- but that's exactly how you learn the best way [:)]
I started to replace the rear height corrector, pair of spheres and the anti-sing sphere. Fortunately I had none of the problems removing any of the spheres that some contributors to this forum have had. They all came loose with a twist of my hand. I also managed to undo all of the fluid lines into the height corrector OK, only one of the connectors had been stripped a bit & so required the use of molegrips. I removed the spring from the 'rod' OK, & the plasic clip, and the pair of retaining bolts connecting the corrector unit to the car frame. So only the one remaining bolt to go and guess what; it's been mangled and I cannot get any purchase on it with anything at all. Does anyone have any idea how I can get the thing unbolted? Would applying lots of pressure on the height corrector move it or would I be in danger of damaging something. Anyone who has done this job will know that it's very tight in there and there are a few fluid pipes. I tried removing some of these to give myself some space but they were connected quite tightly and I was loathe to put too much pressure on and mess things up, so left them in place. TBH I don't see that it would have done much good as I really cannot see any 'edge' in the bolt head that I could use to get any purchase. I really am quite stuck now and would appreciate any ideas as to what I might try.
Smiffy -
From what I read I understand you have a mix of 3 problems :
1) The bolthead is rounded off
2) Lack of workspace using a molegrip approach to the problem
3) The bolt is stuck
What I do not fully understand is where exactly this bolt is fitted - i.e. what part(s) does it actually bolts down ?
What I'm certain about is that if this bolt in fact holds the HC body down - then it's close to be your first (minor) Waterloo problem - as the HC body is alloy - and will not accept any unduly force w/o shearing.
Back to the teaser bolt :
Even a rounded bolt is possible to wind out - once it's loose in the threads - which means instead of trying to unwind the bolt - then you shift methods applied to have the bolt loose in the threads.
I've found that an air driven chisel with needle tip would allways vibrate a stuck bolt loose - if threads are not locked with Locktite.
It worked for me as a miracle on a sheared headbolt with a stud left in the engine block - works even on insanely stuck rusty wheelbolts on breakers wreck cars left for y's untouched.
Such a tool is commonly part of the standard accessory for small hobby air compressors.
But as I understand it - the problem may be to even locate this tool on to that bolt of your's.
Another common approach is applying heat - but again may be prohibitive due to the surroundings.
A stickwelder using a hard steel (not welding) anode on the bolt would force such high currents thru the bolt & threads - that it positively heats up due to the relatively high ohmic resistance in the bolts threads - but with riscs that the alloy body would crack.
Hope this gives you some ideas ?
From what I read I understand you have a mix of 3 problems :
1) The bolthead is rounded off
2) Lack of workspace using a molegrip approach to the problem
3) The bolt is stuck
What I do not fully understand is where exactly this bolt is fitted - i.e. what part(s) does it actually bolts down ?
What I'm certain about is that if this bolt in fact holds the HC body down - then it's close to be your first (minor) Waterloo problem - as the HC body is alloy - and will not accept any unduly force w/o shearing.
Back to the teaser bolt :
Even a rounded bolt is possible to wind out - once it's loose in the threads - which means instead of trying to unwind the bolt - then you shift methods applied to have the bolt loose in the threads.
I've found that an air driven chisel with needle tip would allways vibrate a stuck bolt loose - if threads are not locked with Locktite.
It worked for me as a miracle on a sheared headbolt with a stud left in the engine block - works even on insanely stuck rusty wheelbolts on breakers wreck cars left for y's untouched.
Such a tool is commonly part of the standard accessory for small hobby air compressors.
But as I understand it - the problem may be to even locate this tool on to that bolt of your's.
Another common approach is applying heat - but again may be prohibitive due to the surroundings.
A stickwelder using a hard steel (not welding) anode on the bolt would force such high currents thru the bolt & threads - that it positively heats up due to the relatively high ohmic resistance in the bolts threads - but with riscs that the alloy body would crack.
Hope this gives you some ideas ?
Thanks for the tips Anders.
Just in case anyone comes across this problem I'll explain the situation as clearly as I can. At the very least it may stop people attacking car components with inappropriate tools!
I The HC has three holes in it to fit to the car chassis. Two of them run parallel to the roll bar or, to put it another way, in line/parallel/horizontal, with the rear wheels. These are easily accesible and I got them off OK. The troublesome bolt goes through the other hole which is at 90 degrees to the other two and some 4" forward towards the front of the car. Access to the head of the bolt is made more awkward because the fluid lines to the HC & the anti-sink sphere are all in the way. The bolts themselves have a sunken hexagonal head and the head itself is round. Some cowboys without the proper tool to remove the bolt might use a screwdrives, as I suspect has happened in this case. Therefore you cannot get a proper grip on the inside of the head or on the outside.
When I do get the bolt out I will rep[lace all three with a hex AND a sunken hex on the head so that in future I'll have two methods to get them out.
Just in case anyone comes across this problem I'll explain the situation as clearly as I can. At the very least it may stop people attacking car components with inappropriate tools!
I The HC has three holes in it to fit to the car chassis. Two of them run parallel to the roll bar or, to put it another way, in line/parallel/horizontal, with the rear wheels. These are easily accesible and I got them off OK. The troublesome bolt goes through the other hole which is at 90 degrees to the other two and some 4" forward towards the front of the car. Access to the head of the bolt is made more awkward because the fluid lines to the HC & the anti-sink sphere are all in the way. The bolts themselves have a sunken hexagonal head and the head itself is round. Some cowboys without the proper tool to remove the bolt might use a screwdrives, as I suspect has happened in this case. Therefore you cannot get a proper grip on the inside of the head or on the outside.
When I do get the bolt out I will rep[lace all three with a hex AND a sunken hex on the head so that in future I'll have two methods to get them out.
Removed troublesome bolt attaching the HC to car chassis OK in the end. The HC will move downwards if you remove the two other bolts and this loosens the bolt. You have to be careful though.
I have now fitted all the components (IE HC, anti-sink rear centre sphere & pair of spheres). The car will now rise up & down OK and the front is as it should be. The rear is not as 'hard' as it was but to my mind it is still too high and perhaps not as 'spongy' as it should be. Certainly my garage would not pass the car for MOT as it is. I've looked on the forum and am finding it hard to see anything on how to adjust the height. The Haynes manual simply says that this is a specialist job and I should take it to a Citroen dealer. Well; I started this job so I could avoid doing that. Could anyone point me to an article or offer advice?
I have now fitted all the components (IE HC, anti-sink rear centre sphere & pair of spheres). The car will now rise up & down OK and the front is as it should be. The rear is not as 'hard' as it was but to my mind it is still too high and perhaps not as 'spongy' as it should be. Certainly my garage would not pass the car for MOT as it is. I've looked on the forum and am finding it hard to see anything on how to adjust the height. The Haynes manual simply says that this is a specialist job and I should take it to a Citroen dealer. Well; I started this job so I could avoid doing that. Could anyone point me to an article or offer advice?
Smiffy47,
Your courage in the face of Citroen adversity is admirable!
There is a Xantia forum on Yahoo! groups somewhere and there is probably someone on there who has faced the same issues.
A long shot, but it may be useful to perform the follwing actions:
1/Citaerobics - move the manual level leaver (in the cabin) from full high to full low several times, letting the car settle at the end of each cycle. This helps to flush air out of the system.
2/ Bleed the brake lines. Air settles in here and can affect ride and brakes. Get an assitant to depress the pedal slightly. Bleed off the air to the brake lines at the nipple as per a "lesser" type of car!
HTH
rg
XM 2.5 VSX 1997
Your courage in the face of Citroen adversity is admirable!
There is a Xantia forum on Yahoo! groups somewhere and there is probably someone on there who has faced the same issues.
A long shot, but it may be useful to perform the follwing actions:
1/Citaerobics - move the manual level leaver (in the cabin) from full high to full low several times, letting the car settle at the end of each cycle. This helps to flush air out of the system.
2/ Bleed the brake lines. Air settles in here and can affect ride and brakes. Get an assitant to depress the pedal slightly. Bleed off the air to the brake lines at the nipple as per a "lesser" type of car!
HTH
rg
XM 2.5 VSX 1997
..see
http://www.splut.com/sub/x/xantia.html
..for loads of links. The Xantia Yahoo! group address is half way down.
rg
http://www.splut.com/sub/x/xantia.html
..for loads of links. The Xantia Yahoo! group address is half way down.
rg
I don't know if these are the same as a BX (no doubts some one will confirm one way or 'tother) but if they are, the clamp you can see on the left hand side of the sway bar is the adjustment.
On a BX this is adjusted so that the bottom of the rear crossmember is 160 mm above ground level.
It goes without saying that this adjustment can only be done over a pit, on a hoist or with a bit of ingenuity on a set of ramps as if you turn it the wrong way or it slips....your dead!![B)]
As a guide, here's the pic and I'm sure those more Xantia savvy than I will fill in the rest of the picture or disagree, whichever the case may be.
Alan S
On a BX this is adjusted so that the bottom of the rear crossmember is 160 mm above ground level.
It goes without saying that this adjustment can only be done over a pit, on a hoist or with a bit of ingenuity on a set of ramps as if you turn it the wrong way or it slips....your dead!![B)]
As a guide, here's the pic and I'm sure those more Xantia savvy than I will fill in the rest of the picture or disagree, whichever the case may be.
Alan S
well. thanks for all the advice & pointers. Before I embarked on anything serious I got underneath again and made doubly sure everything was connected OK and gave the rod & spring a little jiggle. Presto Hey, the ride height is OK & suspension works pretty much fine. For some unfathomable reasom the passenger side rear sphere developed a serious leak though it hadn't before and I had to tighten it some way past hand tight. More problematic is a small leak of LHM from the HC that is definitely not coming from any of the pipe connections or the overflow pipe. It seems to be coming from within the unit itself. Is this possible? It seems to me to be seeping from one of those large (circa 2 1/2" dia) rubber seals on the HC but I might be wrong about that - it's difficult to be sure. Aside from that the car is driving nicely.
Hi again Smiffy -
Are you absolute definate 100% positively sure the HC leak is not coming from one of the pipes [?]
The reason I ask is that most often the pipe seal is left (or inserted) in HC pipe port - and then the pipe is inserted and torqued with the union nut.
In most cases this will shear the seal by the sharp edged end of the pipe.
The seal must be located over the pipe end - and then the pipe is inserted to prevent this.
Having said that I admit that the end rubber caps on the HC is in fact known to leak in rare cases. But then it's the inner membrane leaking - not the outer protective cap. A leaking HC membrane is usually only seen on older species as the rubber stiffens/rots and develop cracks. Other faults could be minor damages during handling.
If you can live with this nuisance for a while - then take your time to find a HC from a breaker - then simply overhaul this unit for a later replacement. Makes things so much easier.
The HC is in fact surprisingly simple - much like a moped carburettor in complexity. Just notice how every bit is oriented/located during disassembly. Then clean every bit in petrol and lube with LHM on reassembly. The rubber caps/membranes loves silicone grease after cleaning.
Are you absolute definate 100% positively sure the HC leak is not coming from one of the pipes [?]
The reason I ask is that most often the pipe seal is left (or inserted) in HC pipe port - and then the pipe is inserted and torqued with the union nut.
In most cases this will shear the seal by the sharp edged end of the pipe.
The seal must be located over the pipe end - and then the pipe is inserted to prevent this.
Having said that I admit that the end rubber caps on the HC is in fact known to leak in rare cases. But then it's the inner membrane leaking - not the outer protective cap. A leaking HC membrane is usually only seen on older species as the rubber stiffens/rots and develop cracks. Other faults could be minor damages during handling.
If you can live with this nuisance for a while - then take your time to find a HC from a breaker - then simply overhaul this unit for a later replacement. Makes things so much easier.
The HC is in fact surprisingly simple - much like a moped carburettor in complexity. Just notice how every bit is oriented/located during disassembly. Then clean every bit in petrol and lube with LHM on reassembly. The rubber caps/membranes loves silicone grease after cleaning.
Thanks for the reply again Anders.
I am pretty certain that it is not coming from the pipes. From memory I think there are only three connections plus the plastic overflow and they were dry. Also, the leak appears to drip from the 'front' of the HC, IE from the one nearest the driver/front of the car and the connections are towards the other end. I will check again but my partner has buggered off to Somerset with it for the Xmas break so I shan't be able to verify that util I go down on Tuesday(on the train - lovely. Laptop out & watch a movie on the way down. Don't like driving all that much really. Well not on our jammed roads). BTW the HC is new so if it is faulty I'll just ask for a replacement.
Another problem I have now is the radio not accepting the code. I've followed the advice on the forum and in the Citroen radio manual to the letter IE press buttons 1, 2, 3, 4 and scrolling each button to display correct number and then verifying by pressing 6 but all I get is the dashes back and another hour or so's wait for another try. I suppose the number written in the service history book could be wrong. Anyway, hardly a big problem and no doubt some Citroen dealer will benefit charging a tenner for ten seconds work.
I am pretty certain that it is not coming from the pipes. From memory I think there are only three connections plus the plastic overflow and they were dry. Also, the leak appears to drip from the 'front' of the HC, IE from the one nearest the driver/front of the car and the connections are towards the other end. I will check again but my partner has buggered off to Somerset with it for the Xmas break so I shan't be able to verify that util I go down on Tuesday(on the train - lovely. Laptop out & watch a movie on the way down. Don't like driving all that much really. Well not on our jammed roads). BTW the HC is new so if it is faulty I'll just ask for a replacement.
Another problem I have now is the radio not accepting the code. I've followed the advice on the forum and in the Citroen radio manual to the letter IE press buttons 1, 2, 3, 4 and scrolling each button to display correct number and then verifying by pressing 6 but all I get is the dashes back and another hour or so's wait for another try. I suppose the number written in the service history book could be wrong. Anyway, hardly a big problem and no doubt some Citroen dealer will benefit charging a tenner for ten seconds work.