Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

Albireo wrote: Is there a possibility that the "new" pump has been disassembled and assembled wrong?
These is but let's get the crank/cam/pump timing checked and confirmed first Jan :wink:
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Albireo »

A report how it went with the car (Xantia 1,9 TD, aut)!
Thanks, that You pressed to check the settings.
Did not think they were wrong, because I locked the fuel pump when it was changed.

Info!
It was not easy to find the hole and lock the flywheel, under the starter.
The image from Haynes became crucial, it must be the hole I have found :wink:
How it is possible to screw an M8 there?, feels like a mystery. It became an M6 welded on a stick ...
With all the selections on the spot (no teeth wrong on both cam and pump ??).
It was a craft to get the teeth on the timing belt to sue / release / twist / pull ...
Eventually sued everything - even after a few laps. (this can not be right in the past).
Now it feels like all selections are correct.

Hesitations
Timing belt
One thing that makes me worried is the timing belt. (Hope I can explain my concern)
Why is the timing belt as far out on the camshaft and diesel pump?
The teeth of the timing belt are in line with the outer edge of diesel pump teeth wheel. (The back of the timing belt is a few mm outside)
Maybe have the timing belt touch against the outer side of the upper belt guard.

Should it be so?
Dare I drive the car?
What could be wrong?
(The water pump? Tension pulley? Incorrect timing belt tension?...)

Timing belt tension
How can I stretch the timing belt correctly?
Is it possible to perform without special tools?

Front belt guard
When I would install the front belt guard, became the little nut at the bottom a problem.
(probably struggled more than an hour with my big hands, for the area, and extended ring keys and ....)
Any tips? (this car has AC).
The idea is that the nut sit on the bolt when the belt guard is pressed, but it must be impossible.

Good to be prepared the next time ...

Crankshaft Pulley
How is it possible to lock the crankshaft on a Xantia with automatic transmission?
How is it possible to know if the pulley on the crankshaft should be replaced, that the rubber has lost its resilience?
__________________________________________________

Since the timing belt feels a little exciting, have I not dared to run and test the "new" diesel pump.
The engine now seems to go well, and Lexia gives no error message.
(Since if the car is easy to start, the new diesel pump keeps the pressure and so on. - Time will tell).

//Jan
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Peter.N. »

If the noise you have is a loud diesel knock this would suggest over advanced pump timing, the normal thing to happen if the belt slips is for the timing to be retarded which would have required some manual intervention. If it starts and runs OK you may get enough adjustment by rotating the pump.

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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Albireo »

It is not the noise I am most worried about (now).

It is timing belt position on the sprockets, and why. (I don´t know how to add pictures on the forum).

Is it nothing to worry about?
Missing something that will keep the timing belt in place?
Something else that is broken? (I can't see anything wrong with the belt tensioner, waterpump, with my eye)
Don't know if I have the right tension on the timing belt (belt tensioner is in about the same position as before).

Maybe the timing belt was turned the wrong way, at the last change?
Can't see några marks / arrows on the timing belt..
the last change was about 20000km ago - information from the previous owner

As I already have written .: Have no idea what affects the timing belt position on the sprocket

//Jan
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

Jan,

The Haynes manual describes the cam belt replacement task well and if you follow that it'll be good. Basically the tenson is set automatically with the spring roller and then locked into position.

I have seen many instances where the cam belt is right on the edge of the sprockets in this engine ad others. As long as the belt is in an equal place on all sprockets and is not hanging over the edge of a sprocket I'd not worry.

AS I say, tension the belt according to Haynes and all will be good.

I know the trouble you have with the cam covers. They are very difficult indeed. Many times they end up broken.

There is a guide to how to post pictures on this forum in an area called "Supersticky" I'll find the link in a moment..
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

Jan,

This is the guide to how to post pictures:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=35470" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Northern_Mike »

I shall write an alternative on how to do it with imgur as I find it easier that way.

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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by MikeT »

I think Albireo is telling us the belt is not fully over the pulleys and wants to know how to release the tension so the belt can clear the edge.
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

MikeT wrote:I think Albireo is telling us the belt is not fully over the pulleys and wants to know how to release the tension so the belt can clear the edge.
Ahh, could be Mike. I wasn't sure..

In any case the Haynes manual documents it adequately..

N_Mike, yes any enhancements to how to post pictures will be good :-D
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Albireo »

Yes! I did it :rofl2:
Pictures of the timing belt
The picture does not show clearly how far out the timing belt is on the sprocket.
But however some damage incurred before I removed the belt covers.

Image


Picture of the timing belt cover
Showing how the timing belt taken, against the timing belt cover
Image

//Jan
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

Jan, that is a serious problem... Indeed the belt is running well off the edge of the sprockets and it will soon fail.

I would suspect that the tensioner pivot bolt has broken or the tensioner jockey wheel bearing has failed allowing the tensioner to sit at an angle to the belt and pull it off line. A similar problem happens with the auxiliary belt tensioner which works on a similar principle.

I have seen this problem (and the rather dramatic final results) once before on an XUD engine.

This problem must be investigated and resolved before the engine is run again.
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Northern_Mike »

Albireo wrote:Yes! I did it :rofl2:
Pictures of the timing belt
The picture does not show clearly how far out the timing belt is on the sprocket.
But however some damage incurred before I removed the belt covers.

Image


Picture of the timing belt cover
Showing how the timing belt taken, against the timing belt cover
Image

//Jan
The tensioner has failed in some manner - probably the bearing if it's anything like my old 1.2 Punto which exhibited the same symptoms.

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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Albireo »

CitroJim wrote:I would suspect that the tensioner pivot bolt has broken or the tensioner jockey wheel bearing has failed allowing the tensioner to sit at an angle to the belt and pull it off line. A similar problem happens with the auxiliary belt tensioner which works on a similar principle.
I've only owned the car a few months, and have not driven so much during these months with that car (before the car got problems with any electrical sensors - diesel pump and NLS).
The timing belt was new for approx 20000km then. Right now I don't know if the tensioner and water pump was changed at same time.
I'm not as afraid that something will happen right now. It has probably been on this way many 100s of km.
Checked the tensioner roller and could not see / feel any problem.
(I don't know how to lock the crankshaft in the right way, on the car with automatic transmission)

Now it's important that the new diesel pump really works well. (do not intend to buy a new pump for the car)

But if I have made ​​the situation worse by stretching the timing belt in the wrong, way or done something else wrong...
My idea was to test/check the car before the next challenge, (including new timing belt.)
But if it impossible to get the timing belt on the right place now..
And the risk that the timing belt wanders further outward...

Sure, I can buy a new timing belt, water pump and tensioner, but if the problem with the timing belt still exists?
(and I'll have any other problems, with some other electrical sensors... )

Right now I see no light in the tunnel and do not really know how I should proceed.

//Jan
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by CitroJim »

Jan, I would replace the belt and tensioner now.

Also, whilst you are there it is best to also replace the water pump even if it seems OK as they are relatively cheap and often just after you replace the cambelt you find the water pump fails and you have to do the job all over again...

I am sure a new belt and tensioner will resolve the problems.
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Re: Replacing of BOSCH diesel pump in Xantia 1,9TD

Post by Albireo »

Have now got the timing belt, tensioner and the idler roller. (not the water pump, this time).
Got hold of a Haynes reparationsbok Xantia 1993-1998 (Is it the same as 1993-2001?)
Will it work for my Xantia from -00?

When I read how the timing belt should be tensioned, it should only be tensioned by the spring pressure - Could it be true?
Should not the timing belt be buckled a bit more, with the 1/4" square key, before the tensioner is locked by the pivot nut and the adjustment bolt?

The second challenge, right now, is how the crankshaft can be locked - because the car has an automatic transmission ...

//Jan
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