Xantia non-starting issue...

[bonnyman750]

Hi all,

I've had a strange starting issue with the old gold 1.9TD XUD9. This has happened twice now and is disconcerting as there is no warning that it is going to happen. On both occasions the car had driven quite normally, parked up and left for a while, then on turning the ignition key when attempting to start, all I get is the battery light! The engine turns over OK but will not fire. All the rest of the electrical items appear to work normally (sunroof, windows, radio etc. etc.).

I have checked the battery and connection wires (OK), the glow plug, relay and starter circuits (OK), Ignition switch (OK), all related fuses (OK) and all the connections to the instrument pack (OK). I have also scoured the (genuine) factory manual wiring diagrams for inspiration but to no avail...!

The weird thing is that on both occasions, after spending an inordinate amount of time checking things and not making any (apparent) changes and going indoors in disgust, the next day I put the key in the ignition, turned to the pre-start position, all the dash lights all came on as normal and she started no problem!!!

I am at a complete loss as to what the fault is. I have even resorted to wiggling the main harness under the radiator while the wife sat in the car looking for the lights to flash on and off but nothing there either...!

I did read a thread on a French Life forum on a (very) similar fault and one respondent said that it was due to a faulty fuel solenoid on the diesel pump! Is this possible? I have looked at the solenoid on my pump and I notice that there are two wires going to the stud from the black connector (black and green IIRC) and one wire going to the side solenoid...if that makes sense! If the solenoid is faulty, could it be stopping a signal going from the solenoid to elsewhere in the system down the second wire?

Any suggestions would be most welcome as, luckily, both occasions happened outside the house and not in remote car parks etc....

Cheers,

Glyn

[CitroJim]

Hi Glyn,

I'm assuming by the age this car doesn't have a keypad immobiliser fitted. If so then the only thing electrically it needs to start and run is 12v on the stop solenoid and functional glowplugs... Check you have 12v on them when pre-heating.

Your pump is hopefully unarmoured and the stop solenoid is get-attable to check for voltage on it when it won't start.

It's rare for the solenoids to give trouble but there's always a chance they can. It's also worth popping it out and checking it's not just become gummed up. This may be an issue if the car has spent any time running on veg.

Don't dismiss the possibility it may be a lack of fuel getting tot he pump for some reason. If you have a transparent section of pipe between the filter head and pump inlet this will be easy to see.

Final test is to see if any smoke issues from the exhaust during these failed start attempts and if so, what colour?

[bonnyman750]

Hi Jim,
thanks for the reply. The main issue I believe is electrical because when she does start she runs fine. It's the initial turn of the key to the position where you would normally get all the dash lights on that is the problem. All I get is the battery light! No stop/brake, glow plug, ABS lights. The car turns over ok but will not fire leading me to think that the problem is electrical. AFAIK the glow plug relay clicks when the key is turned to that position and power is getting to the plugs and the last time this happened I changed the GP relay for a known good spare which made no difference.
The car is currently at my local PSA indie having the LHR brake pipe replaced so I will ask them if they have ever come across this issue before...

cheers,

GLYN

[KennyW]

Has your ignition barrel electrics failed, all your dash lights DO NOT come on. It is a common problem on the MK1 especially, if it fails to start give the key a wiggle in the ignition and see if this works.

It is due to overheating and there was a modification done on Mk2 which can be done to the mk 1's and is on the forum.

Kenny

[Mandrake]

My money would also be on the ignition switch - especially if it seems to fix itself.

The charge light will come on in the accessory position but all the other lights will only come on in the ignition position.

So if the contacts in the ignition position are not working the charge light will come on (since its powered by the accessory contacts which are also active in the ignition position) and the starter may work. (since that's also different contacts)

Measuring the voltage on both sides of the switch contacts during a failure to start is likely to be the only sure fire way of proving it. I can't quite recall whether you can leave the cover off the underneath of the steering column assembly so that you're ready to take a measurement when it happens, but the wires in question are the ones on the three large connectors:



The picture above shows the relay modification for the heater blower that I fitted to my old S1 Xantia. When the heater blower contacts on the ignition switch burn out some shade tree mechanics simply hotwire the blower to run off the main ignition contacts, which works for a little while then starts burning those contacts out too! That was the case in that car where you can see the tampered with wiring before I fitted the relay modification: (hint - the black wire below shouldn't be there )



I would check for any signs of tampering of that wiring like the above...

[CitroJim]

Simon, that's timely I need to do the mod on my Activa as the blower is intermittent and can be made to be so by wobbling the ignition key. Thanks ever so much for posting that up.

[aneesh84]

Hi all,

I've had a strange starting issue with the old gold 1.9TD XUD9. This has happened twice now and is disconcerting as there is no warning that it is going to happen. On both occasions the car had driven quite normally, parked up and left for a while, then on turning the ignition key when attempting to start, all I get is the battery light! The engine turns over OK but will not fire. All the rest of the electrical items appear to work normally (sunroof, windows, radio etc. etc.).

I have checked the battery and connection wires (OK), the glow plug, relay and starter circuits (OK), Ignition switch (OK), all related fuses (OK) and all the connections to the instrument pack (OK). I have also scoured the (genuine) factory manual wiring diagrams for inspiration but to no avail...!

The weird thing is that on both occasions, after spending an inordinate amount of time checking things and not making any (apparent) changes and going indoors in disgust, the next day I put the key in the ignition, turned to the pre-start position, all the dash lights all came on as normal and she started no problem!!!

I am at a complete loss as to what the fault is. I have even resorted to wiggling the main harness under the radiator while the wife sat in the car looking for the lights to flash on and off but nothing there either...!

I did read a thread on a French Life forum on a (very) similar fault and one respondent said that it was due to a faulty fuel solenoid on the diesel pump! Is this possible? I have looked at the solenoid on my pump and I notice that there are two wires going to the stud from the black connector (black and green IIRC) and one wire going to the side solenoid...if that makes sense! If the solenoid is faulty, could it be stopping a signal going from the solenoid to elsewhere in the system down the second wire?

Any suggestions would be most welcome as, luckily, both occasions happened outside the house and not in remote car parks etc....

Cheers,

Glyn

I had exactly the same problem for two years on my old Xantia. It used to come suddenly and I would be stranded in the middle of the road. I believe the problem is because of loose contacts in the fusebox. However I never got to opening the fusebox and resoldering the contacts. What I did instead was to bypass the entire circuit and connect the ignition switch to the input terminal of the preheater circuit. This is also connected to the fuel pump. Check the diagrams. Never had the problem after that.