Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

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Bandit12
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Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Bandit12 »

There have been a few threads on here recently about members having auto gearbox issues and I noticed someone said something about 4HP20 gearboxes only last about 140,000 miles. Is this accurate? I've a C5 2.2 with 130,000 miles. Gearbox is smooth and has never given any problems. I have however since buying the car 14 months ago changed the gearbox oil twice. once last year and once this year. First change the oil was black and second change it was like honey. Each change used about 3 litres.
Should I plan on the gearbox giving up in the next 10,000 miles? Anything else I can do to prolong its life?

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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You already are prolonging its life by doing those oil changes. They are supposedly 'sealed for life', with an expectancy of 150,000 miles. Mandrake, when he first changed to oil on his previous V6 Xantia got a totally opaque black liquid out. He changed the oil 3 more times and ended up with a much better looking oil.

There are warning signs that the gearbox needs overhauling, but I don't know what they are. If caught in time it isn't expensive (time, 8 litres oil and a recon torque convertor), but if left the gearbox shreds itself.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by citroenxm »

Oil changes and ONLY ESSO LT4117 (I think is the number) should be used strictly in the hp20

regular changes is the correct thing to do and will allow the box to oive far longer. 130k is more for un attended or loved boxs

a lexia will help you assess gearbox condition as you need to reset the oil wear counter with each change with lexia. If not it will contiune to count up and eventually flash the sport and snow lights and go into safe mode even with the oil changes.

We have a resident expert on hp20 boxs by the name of Citrojim. He can tell you everything exactley.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Mandrake »

There's no oil wear counter on a 4HP20, only on the AL4.

Agree about the oil changes though. I would do a gearbox oil change yearly if you're worried about it, that should help prolong whatever lift it has left.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by citroenxm »

Really! I never knew that mandrake.. I thought they both had them.

I need to delve into this al4 im using to change the ev electrovalve for the lockup.. it keeps letting go.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

If you do need to overhaul the gearbox then this is a very good place to start looking for information;

http://www.eastment.net/4hp20/4hp20_introduction.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by citroenxm »

I have that guide for the AL4 so I hope to be able to do it. I beleve I only need to take the valve block out which is on the front of the box behind a cover...
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Ben82 »

citroenxm wrote:Oil changes and ONLY ESSO LT4117 (I think is the number) should be used strictly in the hp20
LT71141, and it's actually on the Mobil brand now.

I'm curious about the symptoms before it kicks the bucket as well. Mine has done less than 90K, but it still concerns me with its grumble etc. It's only had 1 oil change so far a couple of months ago, and will probably do another next summer.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by CitroJim »

The shortest life I've seen personally is 141,000 miles and the most long-lived is sitting in my workshop now with 182,000 mikes on it. It was still going when we removed it from a scrapper.

One day I'll pull it apart and see what it looks like.

ZF gave these 'boxes a design life of 100,000 miles or 10 years. Most pass that landmark without bother :)

An HP20 can have its life extended almost indefinitely by swapping the oil filter (internal - box strip job) every 100K and having the torque converter rebuilt at the same time. Often it's the lock-up clutch in the TC wearing and breaking up that kills the 'box.

The box itself (bar the filter) is a wonderful piece of over-engineering.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Chris570 »

I think you're forgetting the Hammond 1/3 or WFA with his 407 on 196k with a 4HP20. That is on a diesel though and I've seen no signs of that box being out. (Ex airport runs car so plenty of M way miles)
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Mandrake »

Are we measuring lifetime until the gearbox starts becoming symptomatic and cranky, or until it actually goes BANG and stops working altogether ? :lol:

The silver problem child started showing the symptoms of a worn out torque converter (and sticking valve block) at around 100k, its now done 112k and is still going, probably only due to many oil changes that were done after the first symptoms appeared... It might last another few thousand or maybe it will do 10-20k - who knows ? Just because it hasn't quite gone bang yet I don't consider that it has "lasted" to 112k, and I'm fairly sure it would have gone bang by now if not for the oil change intervention as that oil was in a really bad state...

It must also surely depend a lot on driving conditions - did it do mostly motorway cruising or around town driving ? 100k around town stopping and starting is going to stress and wear the gearbox MUCH more than 100k of motorway cruising, which hardly heats up the box at all.

Other factors would be towing (the problem child had a tow bar, although its unknown how much it was used) or a blocked heat exchanger due to lack of coolant changes OR use of some type of rad weld in the coolant...

(If I was Will I would check and flush the coolant side of the heat exchanger to make sure it isn't blocked - it could be the root cause of that cars gearbox problems!)

To Bandit: if you're not seeing any symptoms at all and you're happy with how the gearbox feels and drives, I'd just keep up the oil changes (say once a year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first) and enjoy, there are so many unknown variables in the history of the car that for all you know it might have plenty of miles left.

Generally they won't just fail with no warning - they will start to become cranky and misbehave well before the problem gets serious - most non mechanical people would just keep driving oblivious to the impending trouble, but if you know the car well and watch how it behaves you would start to notice warning signs well before serious problems occurred.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by CitroJim »

Chris570 wrote:I think you're forgetting the Hammond 1/3 or WFA with his 407 on 196k with a 4HP20. That is on a diesel though and I've seen no signs of that box being out. (Ex airport runs car so plenty of M way miles)
Yes, of course! Silly me :oops:

Indeed, driving conditions make a heck of a difference. Lost of M-way with few changes and the TC staying locked-up for long periods will be much different from town driving where the box is up and down the gears all the time and the TC lock-up clutch is likely to spend some time slipping..
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Chris570 »

And diesel rpm's will be lower of course
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by Bandit12 »

Thanks for all the advice and tips guys. I plan on replacing gearbox oil yearly (every 10,000) and see what happens. Car gearboxes always give me most concern cos unlike a bike engine I'm simply not setup with car engine hoists etc to do this kind of work should the need arise.
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Re: Life expectancy of a 4HP20 gearbox

Post by souliswinter »

Finally, my 4HP20 failed @280,000km after full throttle acceleration up to 170km/h on the highway. Probably failure occurred in the TC, still waiting to be taken apart. ATF leakage could be the cause leading to this failure.
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