Groaning Noise
Moderator: RichardW
Groaning Noise
My son has a 1996 Xantia TD, he lives about 350 miles away from me so I have not been able to look ar his car to try to resolve his problem. The groaning noise first happened when he was turning left, it then made this noise when he went over any bumps in the road, if he stops for a time and then restarts the car and continues his journey the noise is usually gone. The noise is present when he is just driving down a staight bumpy road and while not turning the steering wheel. He has also heard this noise just as he is braking to a stop, also when stopped and turning the steering wheel in either direction. It does not make the noise when he does the citerobics. He also has a problem with the hydroulic pressure light, which may or may not be related. When the car is started first thing in the morning the light takes a about 14 secs to go out, Dave Burns says this is most probably caused by a flat accumulator sphere, but on this car the time between clicks is over 2 mins could the accumulator still be causing this problem?. I put Hydroflush in and cleaned the filters, bled the brakes and the light was taking about 5 secs. to go out, over the next 3000 miles the light slowly took longer and longer to go out. I changed the Hydroflush for LHM bled the brakes and the light was back down to about 5 secs., now 1500 miles on the light is taking 14 secs. to go out, doing the citerobics does not reduce this time. The groaning noise according to my Son seems to come from somewere in the engine compartment in the area were the steering rack goes though the floor (RHD).
Hi acrowot -
1) Seems the accumulator sphere is in good shape - once charged by system to normal pressure - the accumulator sphere itself is by far the determining component for clicking interval - and no matter a weak pump.
The long clicking interval also tells you no components are leaking abnormal during drive.
2) The rather slow off-going of the pressure warning lamp on engine start MAY however be a telltale - that some component is "dumping" the pressure abnormal with ignition off. The anti-sink system comes in as first candidate - and the pump as a runners-up.
It can not be a flat sphere - as this would rather fast compress to a high system pressure - turning off the lamp fast.
It seems then the system either have a large capacity to refill on engine start - or is rather low on pump capacity.
Air on the pump's suction side would likely cause this symptom - check the reservoir to pump hose for tightness on studs - and for any detoriation on it's entire run.
Does the car SEEM to lack the anti-sink feature over night ?
It MAY be a leaking rear cylinder (out through the bellow return hose).
3) The groaning is a bit mysterious - does not seem to be related to curving or axle loads. A brake problem of some kind springs into mind.
If the groaning could be identified as showing up during drive load on the wheels - then it's pretty sure the RHS (long) drive axle intermediate support bearing failing.
1) Seems the accumulator sphere is in good shape - once charged by system to normal pressure - the accumulator sphere itself is by far the determining component for clicking interval - and no matter a weak pump.
The long clicking interval also tells you no components are leaking abnormal during drive.
2) The rather slow off-going of the pressure warning lamp on engine start MAY however be a telltale - that some component is "dumping" the pressure abnormal with ignition off. The anti-sink system comes in as first candidate - and the pump as a runners-up.
It can not be a flat sphere - as this would rather fast compress to a high system pressure - turning off the lamp fast.
It seems then the system either have a large capacity to refill on engine start - or is rather low on pump capacity.
Air on the pump's suction side would likely cause this symptom - check the reservoir to pump hose for tightness on studs - and for any detoriation on it's entire run.
Does the car SEEM to lack the anti-sink feature over night ?
It MAY be a leaking rear cylinder (out through the bellow return hose).
3) The groaning is a bit mysterious - does not seem to be related to curving or axle loads. A brake problem of some kind springs into mind.
If the groaning could be identified as showing up during drive load on the wheels - then it's pretty sure the RHS (long) drive axle intermediate support bearing failing.
Thanks for your reply Anders, the strange thing about the light is that when I replace the LHM and bleed the brakes, the light behaves normally (takes about 5secs. to go out), it then over a thousand miles or so takes longer and longer to go out. Doing the citerobics has no effect, does the citerobics not have the effect of purging any air in the system?.
This groaning noise can be reproduced when the car is stationary and the steering wheel turned in either direction with engine running. This noise comes and goes, the car can be driven for two hours or so with no groaning noise.
This groaning noise can be reproduced when the car is stationary and the steering wheel turned in either direction with engine running. This noise comes and goes, the car can be driven for two hours or so with no groaning noise.
Ah - the groaning noise problem narrows in then -
seems to have it's origin in the servosteering.
Could be as simple as a dry cylinder rod in the ram - resembling the good old dreaded BX front strut problem [;)]
Simply turn wheels to the side protruding the ram cylinder rod - and give it some (standard ballbearing) grease.
Does no harm - cheap & easy to do - and at least one possibility removed.
The Citaerobics is perfect to purge air from the SUSPENSION part of the system - NOT from the brakes [8)]
The main circuit is self purging.
Try bleed the brakes first off with hands on car again - don't do anything else - other than checking the warning lamp lit time before/after.
If the brake bleeding shows air bubbles - you have a clue then.
Have spare supply of LHM ready.
seems to have it's origin in the servosteering.
Could be as simple as a dry cylinder rod in the ram - resembling the good old dreaded BX front strut problem [;)]
Simply turn wheels to the side protruding the ram cylinder rod - and give it some (standard ballbearing) grease.
Does no harm - cheap & easy to do - and at least one possibility removed.
The Citaerobics is perfect to purge air from the SUSPENSION part of the system - NOT from the brakes [8)]
The main circuit is self purging.
Try bleed the brakes first off with hands on car again - don't do anything else - other than checking the warning lamp lit time before/after.
If the brake bleeding shows air bubbles - you have a clue then.
Have spare supply of LHM ready.
Hi Anders
Thanks again for your reply, the problem doing anything to the car is that it is 350 miles away from my house, my son will have to take it to a garage local to him and I am just trying to prevent him from being ripped off, as he has been in the past, he has absolutely no knowledge or skill with anything mechanical, He works in a stone quarry and is quite competant at blowing things up (maybe a solution). The problem with this groaning noise is that it does not only happen when the steering is being used, it also happens when he is going over bumps (holes in the road sleeping policemen etc.) he has bounced the suspension up and down when the car is stationary and has not been able to reproduce the noise. A local mechanic has suggested it is possibly a track rod end, I would have thought a TRE would have made a knocking noise all the time, but this fault is intermittent.
Thanks again for your reply, the problem doing anything to the car is that it is 350 miles away from my house, my son will have to take it to a garage local to him and I am just trying to prevent him from being ripped off, as he has been in the past, he has absolutely no knowledge or skill with anything mechanical, He works in a stone quarry and is quite competant at blowing things up (maybe a solution). The problem with this groaning noise is that it does not only happen when the steering is being used, it also happens when he is going over bumps (holes in the road sleeping policemen etc.) he has bounced the suspension up and down when the car is stationary and has not been able to reproduce the noise. A local mechanic has suggested it is possibly a track rod end, I would have thought a TRE would have made a knocking noise all the time, but this fault is intermittent.
I have a groaning CX. It started one day on a long trip as I was returning home.
For reasons other than trying to find the noise, I find it more amusing than worrying, I have changed the accumulator sphere with no discernable difference and also a pump.
As I don't have a F/D in the CX and as it does it at all strange times, I've deduced that it is in fact coming from the pressure regulator due to a weakness or a partial blockage. It seems as though instead of a sharp click/kerack as the accumulator ticks, it lets the pressure go slower thereby causing this more of a whining sound for approx 1 second, in fact my family refer to my 'farting Citroen' which is possibly as good as can be described. It also doesn't tend to want to do it stationary.
I can understand your reluctance at letting a mechanic have a loose head & feed at it as they could really run some bills up & still not find it.
My suggestion would be to let it ride until next you happen to be near the car yourself and then fit a known good P/R to it & see what happens or failing that, get one off a wreck somewhere & instead of getting the mechanic to "find the weird noise" (or clean out your wallet as he'll interperit that to mean) simply ask him to pop another P/R on it & see how it goes; if nothing ekse, it's a starting point.
Alan S
For reasons other than trying to find the noise, I find it more amusing than worrying, I have changed the accumulator sphere with no discernable difference and also a pump.
As I don't have a F/D in the CX and as it does it at all strange times, I've deduced that it is in fact coming from the pressure regulator due to a weakness or a partial blockage. It seems as though instead of a sharp click/kerack as the accumulator ticks, it lets the pressure go slower thereby causing this more of a whining sound for approx 1 second, in fact my family refer to my 'farting Citroen' which is possibly as good as can be described. It also doesn't tend to want to do it stationary.
I can understand your reluctance at letting a mechanic have a loose head & feed at it as they could really run some bills up & still not find it.
My suggestion would be to let it ride until next you happen to be near the car yourself and then fit a known good P/R to it & see what happens or failing that, get one off a wreck somewhere & instead of getting the mechanic to "find the weird noise" (or clean out your wallet as he'll interperit that to mean) simply ask him to pop another P/R on it & see how it goes; if nothing ekse, it's a starting point.
Alan S
Hi Anders
Thanks again Anders.It was the cylinder rod in the ram, my son works in a Quarry and it is very dusty, the rod instead of being nice and shiny was a dirty brown colour, he cleaned and lubricated it and the noise has now gone.My Xantia has some sort of bag covering the rod to keep it clean but my son's does not. Is it normal for this bag to be fitted or not?
Thanks again Anders.It was the cylinder rod in the ram, my son works in a Quarry and it is very dusty, the rod instead of being nice and shiny was a dirty brown colour, he cleaned and lubricated it and the noise has now gone.My Xantia has some sort of bag covering the rod to keep it clean but my son's does not. Is it normal for this bag to be fitted or not?
-
oilyspanner
- Posts: 1246
- Joined: 26 Oct 2003, 16:08
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: