Xantia drifting

[isisalar]

Hi guys
The HDI estate has lately taken to wandering slightly in the straight ahead position, also pulling to the right a little. Within the last year all the wishbone bushed have been replaced, new ball joints both sides, and lastly new track rod ends and tracking on a professional machine. Seems to tramline more than it used to particularly under braking, although oddly this was significantly improved but not cured when I fitted some new rear corner spheres???
I'm thinking tyres but haven't got a spare £300 and there's still a fair bit meat left on them. The osf tyre had worn a fair bit on the inside edge before the track rod end was replaced and this might have something to do with it.
I seem to remember having had replaced an inner track rod on the old LX, I'd never heard of an inner one before and it may have been a bit of job padding, dealer only parts etc.
Is there such a thing?
Loose rack?
Any suggestions?
I once drove a brand new BMW 325i to which the owner had insisted we fit some ridiculously oversized wheels and tyres and it feels a bit like that.
Cheers
Paul

[Chlorate]

It could be a stuck caliper slider on the right hand side causing the brakes to bind a bit - this happened on my ZX years ago.
Easily fixed though, remove the slider pins (may need persuasion) and grease them up.

Alex

[electronmirror]

Paul,
There really is an inner track rod. It screws into the steering rack. Doing a search on the forum will show what a PITA it is to change. I opted to let my local indie do the job some 4 years ago and it was inexpensive. It had caused some of the symptoms you describe.

I'd be more inclined to suspect tyres as the cause, I've had this twice in the last 10 years where the tyre had developed an internal carcass fault. What brand is on the car at the moment?

[Peter.N.]

I had a simiar problem with an XM for years, until I changed the front tyres, that cured it and they were new Firestones when I bought it. Try swapping the front ones over and see if it moves the problem.

Peter

[Old-Guy]

I hate to say this, but are you sure the bushes were fitted correctly?

If they weren't correctly aligned, they can be destroyed amazingly quickly. The late lamented VSX had a new O/S/F arm fitted only a few thousand miles before I bought it, but the bolts were tightened up with the arm on full 'droop'. This had no effect on the rear 'P' bush (pre-fitted), but it meant that the front small bush at normal ride height was twisted to near maximum design deflection and nearly double that on full bump - not surprisingly it self-destructed very quickly!

[Mandrake]

And here was me coming to this thread expecting to see someone trying to "drift" their Xantia...

[isisalar]

One of my first thoughts Simon, however the genuine bushes were fitted by the well respected BL Autos and as yet there's no clonks or knocks so I assume their ok. I think I'll get them to check it out, I'm suspecting it will be the inner TRE, thanks for confirming there is one electronmirror.
It's currently running on Goodyear efficient grip tyres, the osf seems to have worn quite badly since the TRE was changed, ln fact it's looking pretty much like a grooved slick. That explains the pulling to the right slightly, the wear indicates the tracking is still out pointing to the inner TRE I'm thinking.
Thanks for the info. Guys.
Cheers
Paul

[c.morewood]

I'd go with "old guy" and check the bushes.. easy to do .. just take the wheel off and put a lever like a gorilla bar behind the wishbone at the rear bush and just apply a litttle pressure.
Wandering off course whilst accelerating up hill or decelerating downhill, engine braking, was my clue.
Hope this helps,

[Timmo]

And here was me coming to this thread expecting to see someone trying to "drift" their Xantia...

as did i! imaging the dissapointment!

you dont need to take the wheel off to check the bushes, high and a jack to lift it a little more is enough to be able to move the wheel to feel for any obvious play,

i'd be more inclined to go at tyres mind, have a nose for a pair of part worns - i got a pair of nearly new part worns for 30!! even came with a pair of alloys!!

[c.morewood]

Beg to disagree Timmo..Speaking from recent experience, play in the wheel can be bearing, inner track rod, outer track rod, bottom ball joint and wishbone.
Thats a bargain for tyres .. never mind tyres and alloys!!

[Timmo]

Ah! I see your point! Inwhich case, yes, much easier with the wheel off,
Chap around the corner has a supply of tyres and wheels, I take them up my mates shop, for the price of a couple packets of doughnuts get them fitted too!

[isisalar]

Thanks again for all the feedback guys.
I took it to the tyre place, that did the tracking and the last TRE, to get them to check for any play in the inner one, and for any other play elsewhere. All was found to be good so went for 2 new Goodyear on the front. Quite relieved as I was looking at £140 labour alone for the inners and the tyres needed changing soon anyway.
One of the rear tyres had proved impossible to balance after a puncture repair, 3 attempts. That one had to go, the fronts were fine, balance wise.I'd chosen this place as they're next door to a Peugeot dealer, doing all their tyre work and can balance the centerless alloys properly. Put the fronts on the rear.
The car is totally transformed, running true, no tramlining or squirming under braking, the ride seems improved slightly and it feels like there's far less rolling resistance. It went up a hill in 4th that would have needed 3rd last week, that sort of thing.
The odd thing is that the old fronts, now on the rear, seem to have now gone out of balance?
I can feel them misbehaving still and will soon get another new pair and hopefully that will be that all sorted.
What's puzzling me is, what's this deterioration all about? How are they failing? Are tyres now different in some way and the carcass fails before the tread wears away, all the potholes now?
Are any brands better or worse for this?
Cheers
Paul

[Timmo]

Quite often the innsides will start to delaminate, more so on low profiles and bad roads due to less give,

[isisalar]

To give an update on the tyre issue, as it's turned out to be:-
After fitting the new Goodyear efficient grip performance tyres to the front, with the much improved steering and ride, and the old fronts on the back, seeming to have gone out of balance, after a bit of motorway driving it became very obvious that the rears were BADLY out of balance with quite violent shaking, randomly, at speeds between 60-80mph. The car was steering from the rear,following lorry ruts and so on, so something really had to be done asap.
I'd done a bit of research on the new tyres, the performance is the new version of the the efficient grip that were on the car and apart from at least one of them seeming to have turned into jelly, I've been happy with them. It turns out that these new ones have won tyre of the year awards and in the new rating system they are very good, out rating the Michelins in fact.
Got another pair fitted to the back a few days ago, absolute Heaven, I've got my sharp Xantia back, and with perfectly balanced wheels for the first time this year.
The most surprising thing though is the difference in the ride, much much smoother. I can only surmise that the sidewalls on the old tyres had gone so soft the suspension was upset somehow.
I mentioned earlier that rolling resistance seemed improved, now that all 4 are on the difference is very noticeable, it almost feels like I'm mostly driving downhill!
There are signs of a good fuel consumption improvement and time will tell on that score.
So- dodgy tyres can make Xantias feel horrible, and the Goodyear efficient grip performance tyres are very good and seem to suit a Hydractive Xantia very well.
Thanks for the feedback
Cheers
Paul

[Peter.N.]

Good that you have resolved it. I have only had one incidence of vibration being caused by something other than tyres in nearly 60 years of motoring and that was on a CX estate with about 250k miles on it, that turned out to be worn inner driveshaft joints, that only happened on a long journey when the heat caused the grease to thin, once it cooled down it was fine again. I would say that at least 95% of vibrations are down to tyres or wheels - since most cars don't have propshafts anyway.

Peter