Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

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BGAston87
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Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by BGAston87 »

So having driven the Xantia from Weymouth to King's Lynn, I noticed a rattly noise from the drivers side of the engine bay. On further inspection the timing belt tensioner had lunched it's bearings and almost burnt right through the timing belt case.. So i've stripped the timing end of the engine down, covers, mounting and the offending pulley. I've got the pump and camshaft locked ok as they were fairly near the locking holes in alignment. Trouble is I can't find any timing marks on the bottom pulley.... There is a little tit on the lower cam belt housing that would line up with a mark on the aux belt bottom pulley but there is nothing to correspond to it on the pulley itself.
My main question is how am I going to get the crankshaft lined up to where the camshaft and pump are? I know I can use the locking hole in the flywheel but i'm nervous about turning the engine over in case I hit valves in the process.
If anyone has any advice to give it would be much appreciated!
There is a beer for any local greenblood willing to show me where i'm going wrong.....

Cheers all!
1996 Citroen Xantia LX Estate 1.9td "The Vantia" - Getting better (and worse) with every turn of the wheel.
1984 Tablot Samba Cabriolet 1.4 "Ernie" - Picking him up this weekend
1992 Toyota Corolla GL Executive 1.6 16v - Mum's Showroom Riceburner
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by rory_perrett »

The crankshaft position comes from getting a pin through the hole just under the starter motor into a hole in the flywheel. This times/ positions the crank in the correct position relative to the cam and fuel pump.
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by citroenxm »

the XUD is timed and pinned at TDC on 1 and 4... If its your first time, remove the starter, as its easyer to find the TDC hole. a 6mm allen key will then slide into the hole and when the crank is at TDC will pop into the timing hole and lock it in place..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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Old-Guy
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by Old-Guy »

I can't upload photos at present, but if you PM me an e-mail address, I'll send you a photo of the crankshaft nose showing the correct alignment. Trying to align the flywheel hole with the crankcase is a complete PITA unless it's almost 'on'.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
BGAston87
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by BGAston87 »

Nice one guys,

Will try and turn it gently until it's the right way round.

Ol Guy, PM'd you!
1996 Citroen Xantia LX Estate 1.9td "The Vantia" - Getting better (and worse) with every turn of the wheel.
1984 Tablot Samba Cabriolet 1.4 "Ernie" - Picking him up this weekend
1992 Toyota Corolla GL Executive 1.6 16v - Mum's Showroom Riceburner
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by RichardW »

I came up with a relatively easy way of timing the 1.9TD. Get a long 8mm bar, chamfer the end, and bend about the last 6 inches up at about 15deg. It should slide down the back of the starter between the motor body and the solenoid, and is relatively easy to guide into the timing hole. You will know when it's in as it will hit the flywheel and make a distinctive ringing sound. Strip off the timing covers and with the OS front wheel off the ground (but NS on to stop it counter rotating!), engage 4th, then you can stand by the driver's wing turn the wheel forwards with one hand to turn the engine over, whilst pushing the timing rod in with the other. If you watch the timing hole on the camshaft sprocket, you will know when it's approaching timing point, and you can push the rod in and out till it drops into the timing hole. Easier done than described!
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by xantos »

Well I don't know how it is on 1,9TD but you can't use the flywheel timing hole for timing on 2.0 TCT petrol engine. You have to have the right crankshaft pulley. The flywheel hole is there just to annoy you :x
Xantia Break 1.9TD (jammed b****!)
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by oscar »

One other thing that would make it easy to turn is take heater plugs out then just do by hand then not working against compression so any resistance is metal to metal type.
But before you pin/lock it up loosen crankshaft pulley bolt as once pinned up you will break/bend things if try to crack bolt off.

Right size 6 sided socket ,extension,Flex bar and stick a tube onto that like scaffold tube. Then best with 2 helpers if you can? make sure car is well supported, in gear 4th/5th helper with foot on brake with handbrake on well! now with 2nd helper they can support end of extension bar or axle stand works,then quick force on end of bar that should have it moving as with 2nd person you can concentrate on effort on bar. and once done 2nd helper can then retrieve cup of tea along with munch from motor vehicle engineering departments canteen(kitchen)
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by RichardW »

oscar wrote:One other thing that would make it easy to turn is take heater plugs out then just do by hand then not working against compression so any resistance is metal to metal type.
You haven't changed the glow plugs on a later TD then - it takes nearly as long as a cambelt change :lol:
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by BGAston87 »

RichardW wrote:
oscar wrote:One other thing that would make it easy to turn is take heater plugs out then just do by hand then not working against compression so any resistance is metal to metal type.
You haven't changed the glow plugs on a later TD then - it takes nearly as long as a cambelt change :lol:

I did them on this one the first week I had it and it took me 3 hours to get the one behind the pump out.. After snapping 2 spanners and engineering a 'special' spanner which finally got it out a treat. My vocabulary was a little stunted during that evening lol
1996 Citroen Xantia LX Estate 1.9td "The Vantia" - Getting better (and worse) with every turn of the wheel.
1984 Tablot Samba Cabriolet 1.4 "Ernie" - Picking him up this weekend
1992 Toyota Corolla GL Executive 1.6 16v - Mum's Showroom Riceburner
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Old-Guy
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by Old-Guy »

BGAston87 wrote:
RichardW wrote:
oscar wrote:One other thing that would make it easy to turn is take heater plugs out then just do by hand then not working against compression so any resistance is metal to metal type.
You haven't changed the glow plugs on a later TD then - it takes nearly as long as a cambelt change :lol:
I did them on this one the first week I had it and it took me 3 hours to get the one behind the pump out.. After snapping 2 spanners and engineering a 'special' spanner which finally got it out a treat. My vocabulary was a little stunted during that evening lol
When fixing the Green Lady's alarming clatter (belt jumped one tooth) I needed to take the plugs out - dead easy with the head on the bench - and then leave them out until the engine was re-assembled so that I could a) check that it turned over easily without things sticking or colliding then b) wizz it over on the starter until the oil pump had primed and pressurised the lubrication system. #4 plug wasn't too bad to get in with the fingers, but completely impossible to tighten until I raced over to our nearest indy carparts place for a deep-cranked 12mm (& 13) ring spanner as recommended by Sir Jim. I walked through their door at 4:49pm on a Saturday and bought the last one in stock! :) The right tools do make all the difference.

An overnight soak in cheap Cola is an old trick for un-freezing alloy and steel corroded together - though I suspect 'overnight' would need to be '6 months' for Xantia rear callipers!
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by RichardW »

I too have a set of nice deep crank flank drive ring spanners, bought specifically for changing XUDT glowplugs!
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by BGAston87 »

Got her all sorted for my drive over to Coventry on Friday. Good thing too because I brought my Samba back on the car trailer.
She's still pretty sluggish on the hills but i'm making the assumption that after 192k most of her get up and go has gotten up and gone... 2nd gear on the dual carriageway to by Rushden was a little embarrassing but the queue behind was epic. I'm thinking of getting either a 2.1td or a newer, less shagged 1.9 but i refuse to do so until I've dragged 250k out of this one... Cruel maybe but i'm pretty certain that thats around the same mileage that 3rd gear will finally just be flakes in the gear oil....
The Samba is every bit as fantastic as I had hoped and i'm looking forward to getting stuck into some greasy bits on that. Will keep you guys up to date as I go!
1996 Citroen Xantia LX Estate 1.9td "The Vantia" - Getting better (and worse) with every turn of the wheel.
1984 Tablot Samba Cabriolet 1.4 "Ernie" - Picking him up this weekend
1992 Toyota Corolla GL Executive 1.6 16v - Mum's Showroom Riceburner
citroenxm
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My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
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L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by citroenxm »

197k.. my hdi is on 278k and is better then ever get up and go wise!!!

Are you taking samba to the talbot simca international show at Beaulieu in july??
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Re: Xantia 1.9Td timing issues.....

Post by red_dwarfers »

Another idea to throw into the pot if anyone else comes across this thread in the future.

I have a 1-1.5m 8mm bar bent about 6" at the top with a chamfered end, I think there's a couple more slight bends too. The bar comes down past the sump and out around the drivers side fog light. This long bar makes it easy to wiggle around and find the flywheel timing hole (I've usually got it in within a couple of seconds though I expect practice comes in to it a bit!) With the wheel off and sitting on facing the same direction as the car next to the wheel arch I use a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt (with the crankshaft pulley on) to turn the engine and push against the bar with the side of my foot. I know if the bar is in the hole as I can hear it scraping along the flywheel with foot pressure on then it drops in with a clunk when it finds the flywheel hole.
Kev

'19 C4 Cactus 130 Flair
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