Synergie, XUD engine starting and stopping problems?

[Ianhw77k]

OK, so on to the next problem.

After fitting much needed new glow plugs my car was actually starting and stopping very well, for about 24hours!
After that I needed to turn the key for quite some time, along with pumping the accelerator pedal, before it would start. Thinking this was the glow plugs being faulty I messaged the seller hoping for some help, then I went out to start the car and it fired up straight away but when I turned the key off it wouldn't stop until I turned the key on and back off again.
My neighbour said it sounded like a sticky cut-off solenoid and him being a mechanic ordered me a new one through his work.
This morning I have just gone out and fitted it only to find out I still have the same problem!

It doesn't happen every time, it's intermittent. Another thing that seems to happen is that when I'm working my way up through the gears, foot to the floor in 1st and 2nd, then change up into 3rd and foot to the floor again, the power sometimes drops off at around 2500-3000rpm. I was putting this down to lost boost pressure maybe through a hole in the intercooler but now I'm wondering whether this could be fuel starvation?

I'm at a loss, does anyone have any ideas what these problems could be?

Thanks in advance.
Ian

[evilally]

Fuel cut off solenoid was a good shout I would have thought, perhaps it's a faulty electrical connection to the solenoid itself. You could disconnect the wire from it, and then try a manual bypass (just run a bit of wire from the solenoid direct to the battery). If it then starts fine, and stops when you disconnect the bypass, then this would indicate a wiring/electrical fault? As for the lack of power, this could be air getting into the fuel system or a boost leak, but I'd say address the solenoid issue first. Does the car still have an immobiliser?

[Ianhw77k]

It did have a key pad immobiliser but I disconnected it after reading about many people having problems with them.

I was wondering if the inside of the fuel solenoid housing might be corroded or furred up. Looks pretty easy to take off but I'm not experienced when it comes to injector pumps so I don't want to go too far.

Last few times I've been out to it and turned the key it's been fine, sod's law I suppose

Also, the power drop off seems to happen more on a hot engine, I've spotted a couple of dents in the intercooler but there doesn't seem to be any change in turbo noise.

Thanks for the advice, my brother is good with electrics so I'll get it over to him and see if we can check that out.

[Xaccers]

When did you last replace the fuel filter and does the sender in the tank have a mesh filter on it like Xantias which can get gummed up.
Otherwise it could be air being sucked in with the fuel if there is a split/hole in the line.
Would explain the poor starting first off if air gets in and lets the fuel run back to the tank.
Have you replaced the leak off pipes recently as they can split with age and let in air.
Also replace as much of the fuel line in the engine bay as you can with cleat silicone so you can see any bubbles.

[Ianhw77k]

The fuel filter was replaced last service, which was last summer, I think around August time. The tank I haven't been able to get to as there is no inspection hatch and due to the gauge not working I keep it pretty full (that's another story ) so dropping it is going to be quite a job.
I will do my best to find and check the fuel hoses, I haven't found any leaks so far though. I guess at this age (it's a 1995 model) hose perishing is a prime suspect. Thanks for the advice.

I know many people would scrap a car of this age but apart from lots of small problems all coming at once, it has been a really reliable motor and with the load space and weight capacity it is just so useful (I've even used it to transport sheep ). I fully intend to run this car until the very end.

[Xaccers]

A lot of people are fools who think nothing of paying £300 a month for a car they don't own and an extra £300 a year for a service
Old cars over 10 years have proven they're not the Friday afternoon jobbies and were built properly.
For the cost of 1 month's new car payment you can fix most issues that crop up over a year with an old car so I like your attitude

I'm surprised there isn't an inspection hole for the tank under the carpet but I'm not that experienced with the Synergie (had a Citroen Dispatch as a company van back in 98 which was lovely to drive with the gearstick on the dash).

The fuel lines will be under a slight vacuum so you won't see diesel leaking out unless its a big split but you can get air being sucked in.
The fuel filter housing on Xantias is one culprit and I believe it is similar on the Synergies.

[Ianhw77k]

This is basically a Dispatch with a people carrier body on it. The gear stick is another issue, it's falling apart (thanks to my kids ) so I'm on the lookout for a new one and think I've found a guy who can do a pool ball conversion for it (might as well treat myself ).

My wife's Picasso has the same problem with no access to the fuel tank, it seems Citroen don't like you looking in the tank if you run a diesel but you get an inspection hatch with the petrol ones

I see from your signature that you run both your XUD lumps on veg oil, this is something I'm interested in. I couldn't do it on my last car because it had the CAV pump on it, but this one has the Bosch which I believe makes it ok. Maybe I should do some searching.

[Xaccers]

At the moment veg from Costco is about 74ppl so a fair bit cheaper than diesel. I just pour it in and go. Now and again I'll bung in some redex. In the winter I used to add diesel when there was a frost, but experimented with adding a smaller amount of petrol instead last winter and it did just as well.
It's thicker than diesel so any air leaks are likely to result in more air being sucked in, hence the clear pipe from the primer bulb to the fuel filter housing, and from there to the pump.
I change the fuel filter every 6000 when I do the usual service or sooner if she feels a bit sluggish.
Now, the down side; with the age of the pump the seals inside are likely to be hard and have hair line cracks in them. Hot runny veg will get into those cracks and when it gets cold it polymerises and expends a bit (like ice in the cracks of a cliff face) so eventually the pump is going to start leaking. This happened to Cassy after a couple of years so I swapped her pump with one of your Synergie's age that had its seals replaced.
She ran fine with a leak though, and it has made the sump bullet proof (had someone with a heated powerjet try and clean it, 10 minutes at nearly 100C on the sump just managed to clean the veg off one corner). It's also stopped engine bolts going rusty too, although I did have to chip the veg off to get at them.
Yours being a 95 means that it isn't armoured so replacing the seals when they go would be much easier.
I'd suggest replacing your fuel filter and then start with a 50/50 mix of veg and diesel then up the veg.

[Ianhw77k]

OK, I've spotted a fuel leak under the filter housing. I tried to take it off but couldn't get it off completely without removing the fuel hose and I don't have any spare hose clips so I didn't want to go that far.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? It's leaking where the black plastic meets the metal base. Just wondering if this is repairable or if I need to get another one?

There don't seem to be many available on Ebay

[Xaccers]

There's an o ring that fits into the base of the filter housing.
Also the white round dial like bung on the left by the bottom is the thermostat for allowing fuel to run through the metal heat exchanger and it can leak to let in air. So when you get a new o ring from Citroen and take the housing off clean up the outside of the thermostat and fill its face with epoxy to seal it up unless you fancy getting it out and replacing the o ring on that too.

[Ianhw77k]

I think I need to get all the hoses and clips together first, then I can do the whole job in one hit and replace the hoses at the same time.

I did spot the big O ring under the housing, I did my best to clean it up, put some silicone grease on it and put it back but it seemed to leak even worse after that . Funnily enough the leak seems to stop when the engine is running.

Talking of hoses, do you happen to know what sort of size hose I'm after and do you have any links to where I can get some? I've looked on Ebay and there's nothing suitable I can find

[Old-Guy]

Funnily enough the leak seems to stop when the engine is running.

That's because the whole fuel system from tank to injector pump is under suction when the engine is running. A leak bad enough to let diesel in will let LOTS of air in under suction.

The Green Lady has got a little air leak somewhere; takes a fair bit of churning to start unless I use the priming bulb first, when she starts first pull! Been there previously and now the only pipe that hasn't been replaced is the one from the bulb to the filter base, which has a 'U' bend at the filter end and is of course NFP. When it gets really bad, I'm going to have to make up a composite from standard fuel pipe and a metal 'U'.

[Xaccers]

Just use a clear silicone pipe and be done with it. No need for a U.

[Ianhw77k]

I can't remember now but am I supposed to have the ignition on when I pump the primer bulb or not? I was thinking of that to help my starting problems in the morning. That was when the leak was at its worst today, I had the ignition on and was pumping the primer bulb.

I'm wondering now if I knocked the fuel filter housing and caused the leak when I was changing the glow plugs, they sure do like to hide those things! French car designers obviously hate car mechanics

As with all these little jobs, it's a matter of when I've got time. All the while the sun is shining and the car still working I need to be out earning money or trying to grow/rear some sort of food

[Xaccers]

No need to turn ignition on.