Xantia HDi coolant leak and a mounting list of problems.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 30 Mar 2014, 19:12

Well I think it may be the beginning of the end for the old girl but I’m not quite ready to give up yet.

MOT due in 2 weeks time but the list of jobs is getting longer not shorter. Did an oil and filter change and then did the rear arm bearings last weekend not due to the Citroen lean but because of the knocks and the strange wear pattern on the rear tyre. This is the second time on a Xantia I have seen this tyre wear effect without any obvious wheel lean, on the BX the / \ effect was very pronounced.

Anyway, while I was doing rear arms she suddenly developed a bout of incontinence and stated leaking a significant amount of coolant while I was running the engine to get the suspension back up, and this on top of an LHM leak which is also on the list.

Further investigation this weekend seems to show that the coolant leak is somewhere around the area where the fuel filter bracket attaches to the engine. As far as I’m aware the fuel filter is not heated and looking at pictures of HDi engines (thank you ebay) the only place I can think it is coming from is the core plug – see below.

As to the LHM leak a good degrease and wash around the engine bay has lead to the discovery of 3 or 4 leaks to go with the one that’s developed at the rear nearside cylinder since last week, so that’s 4 or 5 to look at.

The rear one is straight forward, damage to the rear cylinder rubber boot so that will have to come off again but I’ve got a couple of spares and even a new one is less the £10 from Citroen.

There are a couple more leaks which I think are very small and have been around a while leaving a possible leak at the steering ram and another one somewhere above the gear box (a significant amount of LHM is running down and dripping off the gearbox) that I’m damned if I can find. I’m losing LHM at the rate of about 100 ml per 100 miles and not an obvious amount when the car is ticking over. If it’s from a return pipe, suspension or steering, then I suppose it’s going to be significantly less when the car is not moving. So the hunt goes on.

Oh, and to cap it all, when I’d had enough and when to lock the car the central locking suddenly wasn’t working. The alarm and clock were off as well so suspected fuse 25. Sure enough it had blow, whether it was due to my engine washing or not, 10 amp fuses shouldn’t just blow so that’s another one more thing to worry about.

I guess it’s going to be a long haul and I haven’t even started looking at ball joints, light bulbs, cv joints, gaiters, etc. etc. etc. Currently at 306k miles, perhaps 350k was/is a tad optimistic.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 30 Mar 2014, 19:24

The filter houseing its self is NOT heated but the fuel is channeled up to the thermostat housing for fuel heating.

As for your Water Leak from the Core Plug I have a TOP TIP for this which DOES WORK! As Ive done it myself Rory..

Get some of this:

Its a sort of Epoxy Resin, and its PROPER TOP S H I T hot! And works brilliantly.

I had a customer last year with a big hole in a rear core plug on his HDi, I had some of this, tore a bit off, massaged it till it got warm from a chemical reaction, applied it to the hole, and it has NOT leaked again! VERY impressive! I keep some all the time now.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 30 Mar 2014, 19:39

Paul

Thanks for that tip. If it is the core plug then its not too bad a job and a new one is only £1.26. I've done one on this engine before five years ago but can't remember if it was one in the head or block, it was certainly easier to get to than this oneis going to be. If it was one of the others in the block then I've got a couple of spares somewhere because at the time a bought more then one as they were so cheap. But that stuff looks like the sort of think you should have in stock anyway, must have loads of uses.

Rory

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 31 Mar 2014, 19:25

You could try Scoll's foot powder (spray) to trace leaks

Sent from a mobile transmitter.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 31 Mar 2014, 19:57

Im NOT a fan of putting ANYTHING other then Water and anti freeze into a Cooling system.

Id sooner look VERY hard to find the leak and fix it properly...

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 01 Apr 2014, 19:10

Nor am I!
I didn't mean put it in the cooling system, I meant clean up LHM unions and spray externally suspect areas.

It's a kind if white powder.

It may also work for the core plug, to establish whether there is a leak there; if you check after a short period, before its washed away.
Basically, the powder lightly adheres to a surface by a potential leak. It's white. Any contamination from a leak shows up clearly and quickly, whereas otherwise leaking fluid may drain away, and leave you in doubt, so soon after a preparatory clean up.

Sent from a mobile transmitter.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 01 Apr 2014, 20:47

John

I thought that was a very innovative idea, sort of spray on talc. Don't think I will have any trouble finding the water leak once I've removed the fuel filter bracket as its pouring out. The hydraulic leak(s) is another matter and may well need your method.

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 01 Apr 2014, 21:01

Rory

Yes, the white talc highlights slight leaks, taking on the colour of the fluid.

I got the idea here on FCF a few years ago, I think. Before that, I used to use talcum powder in a paste of paper glue.

Sent from a mobile transmitter.

harryp · Post by **harryp** » 03 Apr 2014, 18:14

What a brilliant idea with the spray; congrats! I had a leak a few years ago which took some finding - it was a return pipe chaffed through at the rear of the engine. Fixed by sleeving with a piece of clear plastic tubing which just happened to be a close fit. It hasn't given any problem since; now watch it go tomorrow!!

CitroenCrazy · Post by **CitroenCrazy** » 03 Apr 2014, 19:39

To pick up the question of the LHM leak above the gearbox, this sounds like a problem I had on both my cars.

There's a high pressure pipe to the steering rack that's comprised of two steel sections with a flexible rubber hose in between.

Apparently there's some kind of fixing on the near side that retains moisture, causing the pipe to rot. What started as a slight weep on mine turned into a major leak within about 50 miles.

The bad news is that this pipe is no longer available. However, the good news is that it can be repaired. Pleiades fixed mine for me by cutting off the failed steel pipe, drilling and tapping the swaged end of the rubber piece, to take a standard Citroen union. It's then a simple task to make up a new length of pipe, in kunifer. Job done.

Good luck.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 05 Apr 2014, 21:40

An update.

The sudden and large water leak turned out to be as anticipated the core plug behind the fuel filter bracket. Fortunately I had one (bought 3 when I needed one 5 years ago)

Rear cylinder boot swapped with one off a spare cylinder I had.

Finally found the hydraulic leak - not the steering supply pipe thank goodness but one of the plastic pipes going up to the reservoir. I'm assuming it is a return pipe but for what I don't know, does anyone have a picture of the reservoir with all the pipes identified for a Hyreactive Xantia?

Anyway, this pipe has obviouly been rubbing against the plastic pipe taking air from the air filter to the turbo and had finally rubbed through. Got one of the rubber connectors off an old reservoir, cut the plastic pipe, removed the damaged bit and joined using the rubber hose. 2 clips (from a triumph dolomite I scrapped 30 years ago, I knew they would come in sometime) to secure and job seems to be a good un. So all back together and working again, although, and I'm sure I'm getting paranoid, I'm sure there's now a knock from the off side when I turn the steering wheel, might be a track rod or track rod end. Now the distractions are out of the way I can finally get round to the pre MOT health check, if it is a track rod or end I won't be complaining, even a bottom ball joint wouldn't be too bad as I have a spare pair hubs so again just a swap over job.

Guess the old girl might be seeing 350,000 miles after all.

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 06 Apr 2014, 12:28

You're patience seems to be paying off Rory. Nice one!

Sent from a mobile transmitter.

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 06 Apr 2014, 17:29

With any leak in the hydraulic return system, it's worth bearing in mind that all the returns join together at the manifold (the black snakes wedding) alongside the reservoir before the common return climbs over the top of the reservoir forming a the highest point (peak) of the system. The amount of LHM coming out of a return pipe leak bears no resemblance to the normal return flow in that pipe because any leak will be at a lower point in the return system than the peak, so LHM tends to flow out of a leak rather than be pushed over the summit.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 06 Apr 2014, 19:13

Slowly making sense of this. The pipe I had to repair is No 3 from the front.

From this topic here http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... p?p=129536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the pipes are identified as

1 - LHM take-up, ‘sucking’, to high pressure pump.
2 - Fluid return from pressure regulator, flow divider and front electrovalve (solenoid ?), from power steering and hydractive suspension.
3 - Return from steering ram.
4 - Return from height corrector, suspension cylinders, safety valve, pressure regulator and power steering.
5 - Return from height corrector.
6 - Return from brake doser, ‘hydraulic bloc’ and ABS.
7 - Return from steering valve in power steering.
8 - Venting of reservoir to atmosphere. (Also the overflow).

But from the diagramme I still can't quite work out which pipe is which. 1,2 6 & 7 are easy but the others are confusing. Of the remaining 4 pipes 2 have clips and the other 2 are just push fit so presumably aren't expected to see much pressure. My guess is the one I repair is either 4 or 5.

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