Tyre tread patterns

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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by Jodyone »

Northern_Mike wrote: I prefer my better tyres on the front because they do more there. Which tyres hit the standing water on a motorway first? Do you want worn tyres, which won't clear that water as well to hit if first, with a higher risk of aquaplaning? A lack of grip compared to the rear in an emergency stop , wet or dry? I know I don't.
That's exactly my reasoning for preferring new tyres on the front. It strikes me that the only practical difference between new and worn tyres (for normal road driving, not track racing or on-the-limit whatever) is the ability to clear water. The only times I've ever been close to losing control of my car have been when hitting standing water, or hard braking in the wet, on congested motorways (where it's practically impossible to maintain enough braking distance ahead because Van Man..!).

I'd happily be educated out of this position- I've no expertise in assessing tyres at the limit of their grip- but the last time I mentioned it to my "tyre guy" he agreed, but reminded me that it was counter to standard advice.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by daviemck2006 »

qprdude wrote:OK, now I have a confession to make....................................................I'm an idiot. :^o :-**
Why????????
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by qprdude »

I'll get back to you, I'm in Cafe Rouge having lunch.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

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daviemck2006 wrote:
qprdude wrote:OK, now I have a confession to make....................................................I'm an idiot. :^o :-**
Why????????
qprdude wrote:I'll get back to you, I'm in Cafe Rouge having lunch.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by RichardW »

I believe the standard advice (better tyres on the rear) stems from the likely response of the car and driver to them breaking away. Faced with this situation, most drivers will instinctively lift off. Now, this is a good thing if the front has lost grip and the back is still tracking (ie understeer promoted by having the better tyres on the back) as this will tend to tighten the line and pull the car back into shape (205 Gti excepted.... :lol: ). It is, however, a bad thing if the rear has broken away (ie oversteer, promoted by better tyres on the front), as it will tend to exacerbate things, and means that you arrive at the hedge, going backwards, quicker than you would otherwise have done :o On the balance of these factors, most drivers and cars are likely to fare better with better grip at the rear, hence the standard advice.

I did manage to un stick the rear of my Xantia a couple of winters ago - winters on the front, worn summers on the rear. Lost the back end (only doing about 10mph!) into a downhill turn over a bridge in the snow - despite trying to apply some opposite lock it wasn't for recovering and I ended up at 90° to the road - fortunately not wedged across the bridge, which would have been rather embarassing!!

I shall 'stick' with the better tyres on the front though....
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by Timmo »

i've got 4 completely different brand and design pattern tyres on my Xant, an avon, a nexen, a michelin and a marshall, ive not had any issueswith odd handling etc. but can't comment oon road noise as its an old Xant td and they certtainly are not the quietest of motors! ;-)
my 16v bx has 4 Yokohama's on it, i always like to keep 4 the same if i could, but as a next best would stick with pairs, on the Xant, which is never going to break any records for speed etc. i have to say i Do throw it down the coast road at speeds around that of motorway driving, which i have to say did shock me the first time, you Can feel where the tyres are starting to complain, but in fairness, i dont think any tyres would stop it! asking a car to do things it was never designed for!!!! there is a lovely progressive feel to the car on the edge in the bends, and good to know how the tyres cope!
i used to do the same road Significantly quicker in the 16v, but am not overly sure its quite as much fun as in the Big wallow bus!

i think its more down to your trust in the rubber on the car than the make and design of tyre??
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by daviemck2006 »

I'll never just put winters on the front only now. The 107 I had, I put new winters on the front and nearly new vredestien summers on the back and promptly spun it into a ditch, fortunately causing no damage. Either winters all round or summers all round. I have had some dire sounding tyre makes on cars and never crashed and blamed the tyres. At the end of the day if you do slide about you are driving too fast for the available grip and only the driver can control the speed. The above 107 slide is the only time I have ended up off the road in 33 years.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by qprdude »

Fake Concern wrote:
daviemck2006 wrote:
qprdude wrote:OK, now I have a confession to make....................................................I'm an idiot. :^o :-**
Why????????
qprdude wrote:I'll get back to you, I'm in Cafe Rouge having lunch.
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OK Davie, I'm home now. Since you asked, I'll now explain exactly why I'm an idiot. :roll:

Rather than having a look at one wheel and reading the tyre specifications, then glancing at the tread pattern of the other three wheels and assuming they are all the same, anyone with a couple of brain cells would check each tyre properly. 8-[

They would then find that they have three Federal Super Steel 595. 245/40/19" 98Y XL, and one (the worn one) Falken FK452 245/40/19" 98Y with an almost identical tread pattern to the Federals. #-o

Now it gets sillier. :oops:
Having proved what an idiot I am by missing the odd tyre, I decided to double check the spare. Have you guessed yet???

Yes, the spare which I had only ever glanced at from the top, is not only a different manufacturer and a different tread pattern, it's a bloody different size rim! :shock:

It is a Michelin Primacy HP, 225/55/17"
Obviously, the tyre O.D. on the 17" rim is near enough the same as the 19" low profiles, as is the PCD of the stud holes, but just as obviously, it can't be fitted to the road wheels.

Thereby, I come to the conclusion that I am an idiot.

I did notice that Halfords Autocentre (yes yes....groan), will do two Federals , fitted for £167. As I said, I have had no problems with these tyres, and yes, I know they would probably hit you for balancing and old tyre disposal, (I'm not THAT much of an Idiot)but it seemed like an OK deal.
I'm still not in favour of cheapo tyres, but circumstances dictate that my options are severely limited. What it means is, I would have to stick rigidly to an even more leisurely driving pace, although the current boots have been pushed at times.
Haven't decided yet, as the car won't be used much until April 12th when I'm off to Surrey for a month or so.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by Fake Concern »

qprdude wrote:
Fake Concern wrote: Why????????
qprdude wrote:I'll get back to you, I'm in Cafe Rouge having lunch.
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OK Davie, I'm home now. Since you asked, I'll now explain exactly why I'm an idiot. :roll:

Rather than having a look at one wheel and reading the tyre specifications, then glancing at the tread pattern of the other three wheels and assuming they are all the same, anyone with a couple of brain cells would check each tyre properly. 8-[

They would then find that they have three Federal Super Steel 595. 245/40/19" 98Y XL, and one (the worn one) Falken FK452 245/40/19" 98Y with an almost identical tread pattern to the Federals. #-o
Not an idiot, probably just tyred!
Now it gets sillier. :oops:
Having proved what an idiot I am by missing the odd tyre, I decided to double check the spare. Have you guessed yet???

Yes, the spare which I had only ever glanced at from the top, is not only a different manufacturer and a different tread pattern, it's a bloody different size rim! :shock:

It is a Michelin Primacy HP, 225/55/17"
Obviously, the tyre O.D. on the 17" rim is near enough the same as the 19" low profiles, as is the PCD of the stud holes, but just as obviously, it can't be fitted to the road wheels.

Thereby, I come to the conclusion that I am an idiot.

I did notice that Halfords Autocentre (yes yes....groan), will do two Federals , fitted for £167. As I said, I have had no problems with these tyres, and yes, I know they would probably hit you for balancing and old tyre disposal, (I'm not THAT much of an Idiot)but it seemed like an OK deal.
I'm still not in favour of cheapo tyres, but circumstances dictate that my options are severely limited. What it means is, I would have to stick rigidly to an even more leisurely driving pace, although the current boots have been pushed at times.
Haven't decided yet, as the car won't be used much until April 12th when I'm off to Surrey for a month or so.[/quote]
Not an idiot, probably just tyred!
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by daviemck2006 »

Easy mistake to make, about the spare anyway! I think as you have been happy with the federals, get another two, dump the worn tyre, and the federal you take off, I personally would keep it just in case you have a puncture which ruins a tyre. You have been down the motorway a few times in the car as well as the local mileage and been happy with it and the tyres so maybe they are not the best but surely quite acceptable so I would go with that, can't get a much better recommendation than your own. Well at least if you can read the names on the tyres :rofl2:
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by Northern_Mike »

daviemck2006 wrote:Easy mistake to make, about the spare anyway!

Isn't it just! I've also discovered spares that were completely different sizes to the rest of the wheels, 14" spares on 15" wheeled cars, bald spares, flat spares... It's one of those things I always used to forget about when I bought cars.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by qprdude »

Thanks for the sympathy guys, but in all honesty, I've had the car since July 2012, so I've no excuses.
I've checked the tyre pressures regularly, had new sensors fitted, I have loads of rags, spanners, triangle and hi-viz vests packed round the spare so you would have though I'd have noticed .
I think maybe you see what you expect to see.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by Timmo »

Correct me if I am wrong but are they not meant as a Spare and just that, not a replacement, alas the differing Rim size (not the overall size) to stop you from forgetting about it,
You may remember the fuss created when people discovered that their new cars Only had 4 alloys and a steel spare?? Many many 'I expected the Spare to be alloy as well' to be frankly answered by the manufacturers with the above line, its a spare not a replacement, kinda Led to the space savers too, dual purpose of saving a lot of space in the boot but also stops the fit the spare and forget mentality a bit,

I know on the Bx16v it had std 14" alloys but steel spare, the spare Had the spacers on the bolt holes to allow fitting with the alloy bolts,
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by daviemck2006 »

My c4 vts had a 15" space saver when I got it, not only not the correct spare it had FORD stamped on it. It would not even go on due to the centre bore being smaller than Citroen. I was lucky and got a 17" resolfen, which were the wheels on the car from a scrappy on e-bay for £42 if I remember correctly. In fact theres another avenue for qprdude to explore. Look for a 19" alloy with a decent tyre then put the worn tyre in the boot. Ok it's a worn spare, but if it's ok right now it will still be ok as a spare for quite a few years, then if he has a flat, at least all wheels are the same.
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Re: Tyre tread patterns

Post by SwissSPEC »

I rotate my tyres between summer & winter, so they get a nice even spread of wear, so i don't tend to suffer with too much difference between the wear on the front versus the rears :) I'll personally stick to understeer than oversteer as its much easier to sort out & doesn't give you as much of heart attack when it happens. Speed isn't necesserily the issue when the tyres lose grip, there is a roundabout near to me which in certain conditions is very greasey, it looks fine & can even appear almost dry, but can be lethal even going at quite moderate speeds. It was quite amusing following a load of cars who were turning off said roundabout going the same way as me & i noticed everyone one of them sliding all over the place with some cars gettng more out of shape than others & the usual brake lights coming on. I thought nothing more of it & kept my usual speed up & low & behold the front went mega light & the car started understeering, a gentle lift of the throttle was all that was required to bring the car back in line, but i was amazed at how little grip there was, i was doing less than 25mph.

Winter tyres on the front with summer ones on the rear just spells disaster in the snow :(

The issue i have with putting tyres on the front with more grip than the rear, is in certain conditions the car has the potential to still turn around & spin, you'd have to be on the smoothest road in the world & with your steering dead straight, all your suspension with the same amount of wear, all your tyres with the exact same wear etc..& do the smoothest emergency braking for the car to not go slightly sideways as a minimum. If you know of any roads like this, can you please contact Sheffield City council, they've got a lot to answer for ;)

Tyres always gets a healthy debate going, all we need to add now is politics, religion & sex into the mix & it could become chaos, haha...
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