C5 clutch dual mass or single plate?

[GiveMeABreak]

You should be fine for your car, as it lists it for your Model, Engine and Year.
Their brochure doesn't list any 2.0 HDi kits at all for the C5 X7 2008 on - there are only 3 listed and they are all for the 1.6 HDi. So I have to assume from this that there are no compatible ones for my X7.

Valeo Kit4P Clutch Listing C5 X7

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Its probably early days yet maybe an email to valeo customer services/sales might return a result for the X7
owners. 'vsuk.sales.mailbox@valeo.com' if you include your Vin No, reg number, variant & Version.
what have you got to loose? I think if you scroll down to the bottom of the valeo website page it does say that the list is not exhaustive
and the C5 does seem to be listed in more than one section as you scroll down. maybe we are looking at different lists on different pages.

Update:::: I to have downloaded the catalogue and if you scroll down further there is a 4P clutch kit listed for the C5 2008 onwards

The number is :835071.

hope this helps Marc.



regards.

Nigel

[mark2256]

Just replaced the DMF and Clutch on my 2006 C5 1.6 hdi at 111000 miles managed to pickup a new kit of Ebay for £190.00 inc. postage. Also recommend changing the clutch release fork, clutch release folk ball joint and first motion shaft support tube and oil seal. As a preventative measure I have also replace both drive shaft oil seals, the offside drive shaft support bearing, checked both wheel bearings (replaced), checked both bottom steering swivles (replaced) and fitted new front disc's and pads. A friend have a single mass flywheel and clutch fitted to his 2005 1.6 hdi back in November 2016 I when for a drive in it and the vibration was atrosious last month whilst drive in the M1 the engine died he had the car recovered to his home and on stripping it down he found the crankshaft had snapped, bent 8 valves and holed 2 pistons expensive mistake fitting a single mass flywheel?

[GiveMeABreak]

That's very similar to what has happened to others - so with a bigger engine with more torque it's very hard to see where that extra damping is going to come from. Surely if a solid flywheel would do the job they would fit it as standard! It's difficult to decide, especially when you hear of this sort of thing happening. I think I will stick with the DMF personally as I just can't see how a solid flywheel can be as good!

[elma]

Is that the 4p clutch plate or a conventional one though? With the 4p the damping is moved to the plate whereas with a traditional clutch there is no damping.
I for one find the 4p quite fascinating and enticing. Not being one to buy modern cars and not actually having a clutch thankfully I'll not need to make this decision myself.

[GiveMeABreak]

I don't know James, I found this article an interesting read though....
http://www.nwtgearboxes.co.uk/2014/03/2 ... onversion/

[elma]

A friend have a single mass flywheel and clutch fitted to his 2005 1.6 hdi back in November 2016 I when for a drive in it and the vibration was atrosious last month whilst drive in the M1 the engine died he had the car recovered to his home and on stripping it down he found the crankshaft had snapped, bent 8 valves and holed 2 pistons expensive mistake fitting a single mass flywheel?

I mean this one Marc, I don't expect the 4p kit would let the damage be caused thats described here as it just moves the damping to a cheaper part of the clutch/flywheel system.

[flying clutchman]

I don't know James, I found this article an interesting read though....
http://www.nwtgearboxes.co.uk/2014/03/2 ... onversion/

It's an interesting article, BUT it's not entirely independent. If you look at the bottom of the article you will see SOURCE: LUK
LUK of course are the very people who make DMFs at great profit to the motor trade! A previous post relates a story of a PSA 1.6hdi breaking a crankshaft a year after a SMF was fitted, however DMFs are NOT fitted to this engine when installed on the series 2 Berlingo. I think the issue is more often poor quality parts than anything. Stuff off of ebay etc. is not really advisable. Valeo 4piece replacement kits should be ok. The article also talks about slave cylinders failing on transits. This is a complete red herring, slave cylinders on transits are a common failure whichever flywheel is fitted.

[RichardW]

And how does a flywheel cause a 15% rise in fuel consumption?

[elma]

I'm not sure there is a definite and correct answer to this anyway. It surely depends on the vehicle and it's driver. For example 6 cylinder diesel Nissan Navara used for towing a braked trailer, ate the DMF in a very short time. Fitted a SMF years ago and it's still going strong. It's worked hard but gently and it's never complained. Do the same thing and drive it aggressively or in constant start stop traffic then the outcome would surely be different.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Someone on here enquired about the cost of a replacement solid flywheel and found it was more expensive.

well unable to find a replacement conversion kit to a Single mass flywheel for my 2007 138BHP MK2 C5 Exclusive Hatchback.

I emailed Valeo customer services on Sunday. giving all the necessary information from the reg document Model: variant: reg number:

They replied yesterday, They have a Single Mass Conversion Kit for the 138BHP 2.0l Hdi and the part number is 835069

I looked it up online and the price is £249.00 for the 4 piece kit.

This beats a replacement dual mass flywheel kit including the flywheel by £200.00 then of course we are looking at labour or about £300.00

so current single mass clutch changes for older single mass clutch cars at around £500.00 all in is about right at most garages.

unless of course you plan to do the job yourself.

it is slightly more comforting that Valeo have admitted over time that the dual mass flywheel is a failure to consumers with them failing at around 50-60K.

and have designed the 4p Valeo SMF conversion kit.

I will be giving them a chance especially as I like to be able to tow large four wheeled car transporter trailers.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

I don't know James, I found this article an interesting read though....
http://www.nwtgearboxes.co.uk/2014/03/2 ... onversion/

sorry to nit pick Marc but the evidence for a single mass flywheel increasing fuel consumption
is based upon a fleet of taxis.
surely these would be doing mostly stop and go driving mainly shorter distances in town?

fair enough some might be doing the odd airport run, there does not seem to be enough information given
for driving habits.
so it is difficult to make an informed decision.

Strange this subject as I raised it at Pleiades yesterday and Martin is all for the DMF whereas Simon who seems to be the main mechanic these days
Hired by Martin seems to like Single mass conversions and says they seem to be pretty good clutches and its hard to tell the difference when driving,
so once again another difference of opinions, even between two mechanics at the same garage.

I think as my oil and filter changes are always going to be at 3K religiously I could be giving my engine that little bit extra protection anyway.

regards.

Nigel.

[GiveMeABreak]

I believe it's to do with the fact that most of the wear on a DMF occurs at low revs, so to prolong DMF life some choose to drive in lower gear, keeping the revs higher and thus lose the economy you get from driving with low revs in higher gears.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

I see your point there Marc, I often forget all about sixth gear as I'm used to a five speed box.
hence probably why I only achieve around 38 to the gallon.

(have you emailed Valeo customer services yet about a 4P kit for yours)?

regards.

Nigel.

[GiveMeABreak]

Newer lighter engines with more power / torque will have increased vibrations. More vibration is not good for transmission and driveshaft components. Take away the damping and more vibration will occur, which can surely lead to premature failure of these related components. Again - if the single flywheels do the same job, why don't the vehicle manufacturer's fit them as standard? The same companies would still make the single flywheels as the DMFs. I am sure the Kit4Ps are quality conversion kits, but I would want to see the car manufacturers fitting them as OEM kit first if they are as good. They are certainly cheaper than a DMF - so if this would make the cars cheaper - this would be another reason to fit them.....

This has to be a personal choice.