C5 handbrake cable help

[big sarg]

I am having some problems replacing my handbrake cable I need to replace it due to the rubber flexible bit at the front breaking and pinching the cable making it stay on that side once the handbrake has been released,

The cable itself is free as a bird in the guide tube and I can pull and push it with ease the problem I have got it once I have disconnected it from the base of the handbrake how do I get it to pull though the tube because as soon as it gets to the entry of the tube it gets stuck due to the ball of the end of the fitting and the same for renewal

Sorry if my description is a bit vague if you need any more description I will answer as soon as possible

[myglaren]

A look here might help a bit.

[big sarg]

Thanks for the reply it's not the tube that is my problem I don't think it's I can't figure out how I get the old cable out because it stops where it goes though the floor or enters the tube or does the tube have to be removed just to get the old cable out and feed the new one in

[Estately]

Hi Big sarg,

If it is the cable that you are trying to remove and it is a C5 MkII, then I was able to remove and replace the cable using a variable speed electric drill. Attach the chuck at the wheel arch end to the cable if broken or the cable end that fits the caliper end if not broken and slowly rotate the cable in the same direction that it is wound. I was able to both pull the old one out and push the new cable back into the tube with the drill, working as I say at the wheel arch. I also think that it is worth while lubricating the cable and inside the tube.
Before the cable starts to tangle fit a suitable length of say half inch tube over it to stop the cable looping and to maintain the torque in the correct direction. You may need a couple or so of different length pieces of tube to fit over the exposed cable.

Hope that helps

Andy.

[sparksie]

Hi

Sorry if this has already been ruled out, but if the ball from the inboard end of the cable is too big to fit through the tube, does it not follow that the other end must be narrow enough and all that needs to be done is to detach it from the caliper and pull it in?
I've only ever seen a C5 from a distance, but am familiar with most makes of car and would have replaced cables on many of them. They usually only fit one way...

[dnsey]

I agree - the 'loop' on the caliper end is quite a lot narrower than the cable diameter, and should pull through the tube with no problem.

[big sarg]

I have being trying to pull the cable from the calliper end and I it pulls about 10cm before the connecter of the inside bit just hits he car and won't go down the tube my first thought was cut it off and pull it though but then how do I get the new one though where the old was has being getting stuck. Am I missing something or should it just pull out and come out the tube in 1 peace.

Thanks for your help guys

[sparksie]

Well, without seeing it I'm only guessing here, but it sounds suspiciously like you're only moving the inner cable and the outer is stuck in the tube.
This seems to be what others have experienced, but I'm only going by what I've been reading on here, with eyes that have seen quite a lot over the years.
I would expect the connector at one end, in this case the caliper end, to be narrower than the external diameter of the outer cable, meaning that once you get the outer moving the inner will follow easily.
Have a closer look and see is it really the car that stops the loop, or is it the outer sleeve of the cable, stuck inside the tube.
If I'm right, you'll get lots of sympathy from those who've been there before you and plenty of helpful tips for getting the tube out with the cable still stuck inside, if necessary.

[big sarg]

I shall have another look at it at the weekend and let you all know how I get on once again thanks for your help

[Estately]

If your C5 is similar to ours (2.0 HDi 138 - 2007) the cable is removed from the wheel arch not from inside the car. You cannot run the whole cable assembly back into the tube from inside the car, the diameter is too large to fit into the tube.
I had exactly the same problem that you comented about with the cable pulling out about 10cm then locking absolutely solid. It would move by exerting far more brute force than seemed reasonable even though I had oiled and greased inside the tube.
As described, once the cable was rotated and pulled from the wheel arch end of the hand brake tube it started to free itself and come out. Replacement works by rotating and pushing the cable into the tube from the wheel arch end.
I would say definitely worth a try first given the problem of removing and replacing the entire tube.

[sparksie]

Interesting.
Didn't the OP say he'd tried that and found the ball end too large to fit through the tube?
How did you deal with that, Estately?
Oh I've really got to try and get a look at one of these!

[Estately]

Hi Sparksie,
If you look at deano's "fed up now...." post, lighty has included some pictures, the third one, it shows the ball ends under the handbrake console.
When you try and just push from inside the car or pull the cable out of the handbrake tube to come out at the wheel arch end, it jams solid after moving about 10cm. This gives the very real impression that the ball end is trapped and will not fit through the tube.
Lighty's picture shows that the ball ends are smaller than the tube diameter and if you can get sight of the assembly under the wheel arch you will come to the conclusion that it has to come out from that end.
I could understand that if the handbrake tube has been deformed and kinked through being weakened from rust then you would indeed need to replace the tube when the cable needed replacement.
But as I have said by rotating and pulling the cable from the wheel arch end, for me I was able to extract the old cable and replace it with a new one by rotating and pushing. Handbrake now works fine with no binding.

Andy.

[BX]

Most Bowden cables have three components apart from the fittings on the end. There is the outer part known as the conduit. This is usually made from a steel spiral often covered in plastic. Inside that is the liner which is made from a hard wearing low friction plastic. Then you have the core which is a wire rope. Depending on the use there is a variety of cores available. In the case of the c5 handbrake cable the conduit only goes as far as the steel tube. Inside the tube you have the liner and the core. It is the liner that binds (due to rust) to the tube and is too narrow for the "ball" to pass through. Estately's method must be able to either release the liner or drill through it allowing the cable to be removed. The new cable comes with enough liner to line the length of the tube. Perhaps you might fill us in Estately on whither you had any problem fitting the new cable after removing the old one.

[sparksie]

Hi BX

Now that explanation is finally clearing up the mystery for me. But it highlights a major difference between French thinking and everybody else.
The outer cable (or conduit) requires no self assembly, normally. It arrives intact, with all sleeves, fittings, "stiff bits", etc., all ready to go.
You remove from the car something that looks like what you plan to refit.
This French approach is like buying a head gasket and finding you have to buy the flame rings separately and crimp them on yourself!
At the very least there should be a large notice both in the catalogue and on the packaging, to alert both seller and purchaser to the fact that the cable is not a complete kit!
In Estately's post he talks about using a drill to drive the new cable back in, which made sense to me when I thought the steel spiral went throught the tube, using it merely as a guide. However, plastic liner won't have any torsional strength and will almost certainly shear under anything more than hand pressure, so this remains a mystery.
Perhaps the aftermarket will finish the development and cables sourced from conventional car part manufacturers will be complete by the time I come across one. Gates and Quinton Hazell are both good at improving things for the guys at the coal face and this seems like a prime candidate for such improvement!
Perhaps a little more flex in the tube, or a way of dealing with water/crud that enters via the absurd vertical part in the arch, or even a way of preventing this ingress in the first place? Or how about making the tube more corrosion resistant, so it doesn't trap the liner and therefore won't need replacing?
Judging by the numbers of them I see in the towns and cities, they are popular enough to make aftermarket development viable.
Fingers crossed.
From my perspective, anything that's common in the city today, will inevitably be snapped up by country folk once depreciation has taken a sensible chunk out of the value, so I can expect to start seeing some of the bigger Cits in my workshop again at some point, after a twenty year absense!
Especially when my daily driver has chevrons on the bonnet and draws attention to itself by stretching its legs after every cold start.
That's why I'm particularly interested in this thread. C5 looks like being a "Farmer's Favourite", in another few years, like the Pug 406 today. Comfortable going around with bales of hay or bags of meal, or even a sick calf, in the boot, yet respectable enough to use for funerals and weddings after a lick of a hose pipe. The only thing missing, possibly, is the ability to fix it with the agricultural tool kit (baling twine, fence wire and vice-grips). That's the 406's forte. You really have to try hard to break them and even then, people like me can usually fix them within the farm budget.
Ever since hearing that C5 could be had with springs instead of fluid suspension, I've been watching and waiting to see would it topple Peugeot's crown and, in the cities at least, it's certainly making a mark!

[Estately]

Hi Sparksie & BX,
Just to make it clear the Citroen hand brake cable assembly comes as one complete part, no need to dismantle prior to fitting.
The ball end fits into the handbrake tube from the wheel arch end and in the perfect world would slide through the tube until the shaped end of the conduit as described by BX fits into the tube. You could put a sealant here to stop the ingress of moisture which would otherwise ultimately cause rust inside the tube.
As Citroen owners we know the the world is not perfect and as Citroen fitters large amounts of patience and problem solving are required for the successful outcome of repairs.
I used 3 in one spray, engine oil from the oil can and grease to lubricate the passage of the cable which until rotated appeared to be wedged and stuck. It could be leavered out with great difficulty ( brute force & ignorance) by attaching a mole grip and variously hitting the mole grip with a hammer or leavering against the end of the tube once protected.

As described rotate the cable, (same direction as wound in manufacture) which has a tough plastic coating on it, use a couple of lengths of half inch tube as a spacer which will need to be the length of the free cable in total to remove the old and then replace the new cable.
Mine both came out and slid back in easily using this method after the cable had broken adjacent to the wheel arch end of the hand brake tube.
Hope the description helps.

Andy