1998 Mk2 Xantia and coding new keys issue.(solved)

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Hi,
about a week ago I invested in a key fob repair kit for my Mk2 Xantia and sent the key fobs off to have the supplied new switches fitted as they had broken off. I have received a report from the repairers with some piccys to let me know that the key fobs are working well and being posted special delivery back to me.

whilst they are away I took the new key blancs into the key cutting shop and had the blancs cut into what have turned out
to be pretty precise versions of the original keys which I think were getting a bit worn and not operating the door locks very well, the new keys operate the door locks fine every time.

The issue is after unlocking the car and inserting one of the new blancs into the ignition switch the dashboard flashes the yellow key light and the car won't start with the new cut key blancs
However if I insert the old key first and turn on the ignition until the yellow light goes out, then insert one of the new key blades the engine will start and run as normal.

My first question would be is Does anybody know if there is a chip in the top of the original key blades Please and can this be moved from key blade to key blade?

and my second Is there any way around it so that I may use my new cut key blades to start the engine please?

I am not against doing the odd Mod to the car as it is 16 years old.

for security reasons it may be sensible to use the PM system, just a thought.

Many thanks in advance

Nigel.

[Hell Razor5543]

I wonder if you will need to re-introduce all the keys to your car. You will need to run a Lexia session, with the security code (a 4 digit, alpha-numeric code), and do all the keys (as any that aren't done will be 'forgotten'). If the new blanks have the immobiliser chips in the head, the car won't accept them until they have been formally introduced!

[Mandrake]

Correct, you'll need the 4 character confidential code for the car that originally came on a credit card sized scratch card, if its missing you can get the code from Citroen with proof of ownership, (some dealers will charge, some will give the code for free) or a 3rd party such as The Birdman.

Once you have the code a Lexia key programming session will teach it the transponder code of the new key blank. If you're referring to an RF transmitter fob then the transponder chip is embedded in the plastic base of the key blade and its not really practical to extract it, so a key programming session is the way to go. Its 5 minutes work on a Lexia for someone who has done it before.

I'm assuming the new blanks actually contain a transponder chip, (they should, unless they're junk) if not you'll never be able to use it to start the car!

[RichardW]

But if the new key has no chip in it, then it will never start the car - unless you can find a stand alone chip to glue onto the new key. The reason you can start the car after the old key is introduced is that the ECU stays unlocked for a few minutes after the key is removed. You could get around it by taping the working key to the transponder aerial, but then the key in warning would go off all the time...

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Hellraiser, Mandrake & RichardW,

Thanks for the answers but I've found a way around buying chipped keys and having the chips reprogrammed by lexia.
And yes I did manage to buy Key Fob repair kits that didn't have the Transponders in the new Key Blade Heads.
I thought the key fob cases and blades were a bit cheap at £12.00 each but assumed that the transponder chips were in the key fob not the key blade head.
But having paid out the £20 at the key cutting shop to have the new Brass key blades cut I would have been out of pocket if I couldn't sort something out with the Blades I have already got.
Just for clarity these are the folding Key Blades for the Xantia that fold into the bottom of the Alarm Key fob which hinge at the front of the FM alarm key fob.
I realised that one side of the Key Blade Plastic head is removable and to do this carefully it needs to be teased off with a fine craft blade or a knife Like I used a No3 straight scalpel blade (available at good model shops).

after removing the side of the head of the original key blade, I spotted the Transponder chip tucked into a rectangular receptacle inside the Key Blade Head and before I went any further I removed the side of the new cut key blade head and it looked exactly the same except to say for the Missing Transponder chip. The receptacle to hold it in place was also in the new key blade, so I Marked the Transponder with a pencil so that I knew which way round it should be and which way up just in case I dropped it taking the tiny transponder out of the original key head.

I then teased the Transponder out of the original key blade head by lifting it carefully with the point of my scalpel blade.
once high enough in its receptacle I lifted it out with a pair of tweezers and placed it straight into the new key blade head.
The old original key no longer opens the drivers door lock and had worn out. The same applies to my second or spare original key.
Placing the Transponder chip into the new key blade head has done the trick and no need for a lexia or reprograming of the key. I have tried the new key blade in the ignition and the engine starts as it should and the key code warning light flashes a couple of times and goes out as normal. This could very well enable people to save a great deal of money replacing their keys, the cheapest key cutter I could find wanted £29.99 per key to cut the key and recode it, quite how they do that without the car present beats me maybe they do exactly the same or similar thing to the key blade?
Some of the Transponder chips are cylindrical in shape according to flea-bay and I am wondering if they simply drill a hole in a new key blade fob and insert the old transponder chip. sealing up the Hole with some kind of filler.
The Transponders in the Xantia folding Key blade are triangular shaped so a little different to many others and it would be difficult to insert one through a drilled hole, unless it was 10mm in Dia.
I am fairly confident that I can do this again easily with the other new key blade and Transponder and I am fairly happy that i get to keep my new brass key blades which are better for the ignition lock as it has brass pins inside which are generally worn out by the use of steel Bladed keys.
I shall still hang on to the one original steel key blade as a blade to copy should I need new keys cut in the future but it won't work in the ignition because the transponder chip will be in the new key.
what perplexes me about his whole process most is the fact that my estate boot lock has nearly always played up locking the doors with the old worn out keys but using the new keys which fit tightly into the door locks the boot never fails to lock, I am beginning to wonder if the Xantia door locks are electrically charged somehow and the circuit must be closed by inserting the key? it seems strange that the new keys should operate the boot lock better via turning the drivers /passenger door locks with a new key as opposed to using the old worn keys.

For reference if anyone is interested in Buying these fairly cheap repair kits that include the blanc key blade two brand new switches a new case and Battery the website is http://www.automobilelocksmith.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the part number/SKU is 100695 £12.30 each.

Regards Nigel.

[Estately]

Hi,
Could you post the details of the repairer who was able to check out the circuit board after fitting the new micro switches, one of mine just stopped working. Unfortunately I have had to solder the micoswitches onto my working key twice now and feel that it is on borrowed time. Could do with the second key working as well.
Regards
Andy.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Andy,
https://www.expresskeyfobs.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These are the people (above) who repaired my key fob, I removed the key before sending it off, you can email them on support@expressKeyfobs.co.uk address the email to Claire.
unfortunately they don't have the switches in stock so I bought this kit from ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... OC:GB:3160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and posted it all on to express keyfobs with a letter stating the problems with the key fob, if you send your own repair kit to them the costs are listed below.
as you will be supplying your own parts we will only charge you £17.99 per key fob + P&P


Regarding the post charge it is up to you how you want us to return your items


1st class stamp would be + 90p (No compensation for loss or damage)


ist class recorded would be + £2.00 (£50 compensation for loss or damage)


Special Delivery would be £6.22 (£500 compensation for loss or damage) This is what I used.


In our experience it is always better to take the special delivery option simply because while recorded delivery is tracked if something went wrong and your keys fell into the wrong hands (we appreciate that is a very rare thing to happen) then your working key fobs would be in a package with your name and address on


We take security very seriously here at Expresskeyfobs but the choice is obviously yours


If paying by postal order which is perfectly ok with us could you please make it payable to Mr G Johnson


Kind regards




Claire
http://www.expresskeyfobs.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know its hassle and a little more expensive but I sent a crossed postal order I mailed everything on a Tuesday and received the repaired key fob back on the Friday morning. if you go down this route of supplying your own repair kit as they don't stock the switches there is no option on their website to pay for which is why I sent them a postal order.
They are based in Wales address on the website.

Hope this helps

Regards.
Nigel.

[Estately]

Hi Nigel,

Many thanks for all the advice, I will make contact with them and report the results.
One of our Xantia keys just stopped locking and unlocking as did one of my son-in-law's for his C5 - common denominator my daughter.

Andy