wiring "maps"?

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sparksie
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wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

Hi all

Having got no answer to my questions in the Xantia towbar wiring thread, I figure I'm going to have to do some research myself.
I'm not looking for a wiring diagram, as such, though that would probably have some uses too. What I'm really after is more a "map", showing the route the wiring harness takes through the car.
I'm particularly interested in the route taken by the tailgate harness, once it passes inside the car. I want to pick up the positive supply for the fog lights, both to connect the trailer fog light and to fit a device to disable the car fog light when pulling a trailer.
I wasn't particularly surprised to discover Citroen have their own unique take on colour codes, where red is an acceptable colour for ground! This is something the wiring diagram could prove useful for, as I found original plugs with red and green wires connected to the same pin in both tail lights. It would have saved time had I known about this before I started splicing in. Luckily, I'd spotted the red ground wires before cutting anything, so I was careful to follow each wire to its pin in the tail light cluster before interfering with it, so made no mistakes.
I'm curious to know what the white 4 pin connector is for, in the OSR wing, just in front of the tail light. Hoping it might be a suitable place to power a trailer relay pack from, I made all my connections to the lighting loom here.
The white connector has only one wire that seems to be connected to anything, namely a grey that is always at +12V. The other three seem to be open circuit in all conditions I could think of to test.
Anybody know what it's for?
Thanks
Sparksie

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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Mandrake »

The wiring diagrams are more that just circuit diagrams, as well as the circuit diagram there is another page that shows the physical location of the trunking in the car, and a 3rd page that lists the paths that the individual wires follow within the trunks, and their colours. (Although the two letter wire colour codes are in French so don't make sense without a lookup table!)

If you don't have access to Sedre PM me your VIN number and I'll see if I can find the tailgate wiring diagrams for your car.
Simon

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sparksie
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

Hi Simon.

Thanks, that sounds good. I reckon page 2 and 3 are what I'm after, though page 1 can be useful when things are done, erm "differently" from convention.
I don't have access to Sedre. In fact I'm not familiar with it, at least not by that name.
It's cold and dark and absolutely chucking it down here at the moment, so I'm not able to get you the VIN right now, but I'll put it on my list for tomorrow.
Thanks again, as usual. This forum is a veritable mine of important and virtually unobtainable information.
Sparksie

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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You can, if you thought it worth getting them, purchase the DVDs that have Sedre (wiring diagrams, etc.) and the other system which covers parts, etc. for about £20 off e-bay, and will cover most Citroens.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Workshop-manu ... 3a7d5277e1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

Done!
Brilliant, thank you.
I've been known to pay more than that for a single manual.
Word of my new status as a Citroen owner continues to spread.
Now I discover I have family who own a Xara Picasso.
They've never asked me to look at their car before, but now that I'm a Citroen expert (OMG!!!!!), would I mind having a look?
What usually happens with those kind of requests is an ongoing freebie, in return for which I get lots of work that has to be done at "mates rates". Looks like I'm going to be having an ongoing relationship with two Cits, now, so ready access to a workshop manual will be bound to help, sooner or later!
I hope mine doesn't get jealous. She's been a good girl for over a thousand miles now and is starting to be seen as the obvious choice of transport, whenever I need to go somewhere!
I guess that means Simon can stand down, since I'm going to have the appropriate information at my fingertips before I'm likely to need it.
Thank you both...
Sparksie

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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I have the discs myself. They will take a long time to install (over 5 hours on my PC). The third disc has a huge amount of diagrams, and took my PC over 3 hours to install. It is no slouch, scoring 7.1 on the Windows 7 benchmark, with an Intel I5 quad core processor, 32GB RAM, and solid state drives. I think you will need over 20GB space on your hard drive.

If your discs are like mine, there will be a set of instructions in the root directory on Disk1 (in a .pdf file). Again, if it is like mine, the English instructions are in red, and they worked for my installation. They explain how to use the key generator needed to activate the installation.

EDIT; Typically, that last disc is the one you need, and has several hundred thousand wiring diagrams, covering a lot of different Citroens (but not the XM; even Citroen didn't know how they did the wiring on that!).
James
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sparksie
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

:lol:
You played that close to your chest!
I won't try and put that on the laptop, then.
Might be worth reviving the office PC. I can't remember the spec, but it has never been used in anger and never connected to the net, so it's not full of hidden cr@p running in the background. Last time I booted it up, it took about 2 minutes, compared to the 7 or 8 minutes I'm used to.
It was bought in better times, when I was contemplating having a receptionist/bookkeeper, but never put to use as I ended up retaining both roles myself!
Maybe it can become the cover of my Citroen manuals. The downside of that would be everyone will know when I'm thinking in French, if I skulk off in to the office and turn on the redundant PC.
This wants thinking about...
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Stempy »

Probably worth blocking them from internet access through your firewall. I found mine secretly speaking to Citroen and since then it hasn't worked properly and I will need to reinstall.
It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right

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http://perception.dyndns.biz/~avengineering/index.htm
sparksie
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

Well, probably good advice in general.
In my case, assuming the PC is capable of running them, there'll be no danger of any illict chat, as it has no internet access and is never likely to, now.
If the good times ever return and I ever take on anybody to deal with paperwork, they'll need a current, or at least relatively recent, machine to work with.
From memory, I think that machine is running Vista business, with no service packs, or updates, or anything. It has office and a few other business software bits and bobs, but none of them ever used and registration keys probably irretrievably lost.
If all else fails, I suppose it might be time to retire this laptop, in favour of something that belongs in this century!
That would be ironic! Paying more for the service manual than for the car!
In God's name, what has this car done to me?
I'm actually considering that!
I need serious help...
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by myglaren »

sparksie wrote: In God's name, what has this car done to me?
I'm actually considering that!
I need serious help...
Ha Ha! - far too late for that sparksie :)
Beyond the point of no return now :twisted:
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Ben82 »

I should say, install time doesn't really have much to do with how well a PC can run SEDRE and DocBackup. The largest slowdown in the install process is having it installed from the DVDs. If you make (or obtain) ISOs of the discs (and then using something like Virtual Clone Drive) you will cut the install time significantly, for example, my laptop (a 1st gen core i3, with 6Gb of ram, and a SSD) installed it all in less than 90 minutes.
(Reason why making an ISO and then installing from the ISO is quicker is due to when making an ISO the disc is read sequentially from the centre of the disc to the outside, whereas when installing from the disc, the drive often has to seek to different locations on the disc for each file it is copying). Obviously making ISOs of the discs doubles the space requirement for installing (but you can remove the ISOs after installing).

Installing to an SSD will speed up the program load time a LOT compared to a standard HDD. :)
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Mandrake »

Sparksie: while you're contemplating Sedre (yes it is a pig to install and use, although the information it contains is invaluable) here are the fog light diagrams for my S2 Xantia - chances are they'll be identical and will give you some idea of what the diagrams look like:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ggi ... pzbY9cABwQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/bw0 ... _F5UopYngA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/dbf ... Ac1aDyp9Sg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indicators and Brake lights are on separate diagrams. I have the indicator ones already extracted as PDF's if you need them, the brake light wiring I'll have to delve into Sedre (on a very slow netbook :twisted: ) to find.

Some time ago I did a big bulk export of all wiring diagrams for my Xantia that I thought would be useful to me in PDF format for easy reading on my iPad. (Handy for referring to when out working on the car!)

The two letter colour codes used in the wiring diagram (3rd above) can be deciphered here:

http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot ... agrams.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simon

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sparksie
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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by sparksie »

Thanks, Simon

That answers the question about the white connector. It's C310, the caravan lighting battery positive supply connector.
I'm going to have to study it a bit closer to find the right place to tap in to the fog light wire.
The diagrams follow different conventions (there's a surprise!) to those I'm used to, so I'm going to have to take my time with them.
I'm already using MC71, the ground point for the rear lighting and my trailer board functions as expected, though I wouldn't dare plug a caravan, or horse/cattle trailer in to it. One extra filament (two for the brake lights) is as much as I dare to pile on to the precariously thin wiring.
I'll get around to fitting relays, using the C310 positive for power and the tails I've already spliced in for triggering.
These tails follow the conventional 7 pin "N" type colour code, so the trailer wiring will be easily understood by any competent general mechanic who's ever wired a trailer socket.
I'm happy I have all I need to make it right, now, even if the discs don't work for me.
The only remaining mystery is the fog light and that's not a legal requirement on a car of this age, though I'll do it when I get the time, once I've trained myself to think in French.
Picking the right green wire out of a harness full of them is likely to be the biggest problem, now.
Thanks again.
I probably would have scrapped my Cit, if it wasn't for the input from this forum. I think she's probably safe in my care now.
I've started making excuses for taking her instead of the Mitsi, or the pickup, when I'm going anywhere.
I would have told you you were delusional, if you'd predicted that even a fortnight ago!
Well done, guys.
I really appreciate all your help and I'll try to put back in what I've got out, as time progresses...
Sparksie

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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Clogzz »

registration keys probably irretrievably lost
The keys can be found with a key finder.
Before dabbling in computers I always read the keys, so as to be able to reinstall.

Link to key finder:
http://www.magicaljellybean.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I use Zone Alarm's free firewall to keep the enemy out:
http://www.zonealarm.com/security/en-us ... rewall.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes. :)

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Re: wiring "maps"?

Post by Mandrake »

Stempy wrote:Probably worth blocking them from internet access through your firewall. I found mine secretly speaking to Citroen and since then it hasn't worked properly and I will need to reinstall.
I always run Sedre and Docbackup without bothering to disable internet access - no problems here with deactivation or phoning home, and that's across three different machines I've had it installed on in the last year.

Besides, I have a copy of the java based keygen so even if the registration code was somehow lost I can always re-activate it anyway - takes a couple of minutes, no re-install needed.

I suspect what your problem really was was a change in state of network adaptors between when you installed and when you ran Sedre. A network card MAC address is used as a machine identifier when generating the unique registration code that you're supposed to send to PSA to get back your activation code. (We just use the java keygen to do that for us...)

For example if you have both an Ethernet adaptor and a Wireless adaptor but the Wireless adaptor is disabled at the time of install you'll get a unique identifier that differs from that when the Wireless adaptor is re-enabled. So if you activated with the adaptor disabled and then re-enabled it it will no longer be activated!

(Also installing or removing any virtual network adaptors like those in VirtualBox will also have an effect)

I stumbled onto the same thing in reverse - it had been working fine for me but I had disabled the wireless adaptor for some other reason and found it was no longer activated. I went through the activation process again with the keygen (no re-install needed) and got it working, then when I turned wireless back on again it was deactivated again... :oops:

So the best way to do it is just leave your Ethernet and Wireless adaptors enabled and if you do run into a problem just go through activation again, don't do a full reinstall which takes hours... ;)
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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