Xantia pulling slight to right

[xantiagreen]

2001 Xantia Hatch 110 hdi

Since buying the car it seems to pull to the right when steering is positioned straight, so I took it to kwik fit to get it laser aligned (don't ask) they first set the tracking on normal height, better but still when steering straight drifting to the right. Second attempt was with it fully raised after I spoke to a random citroen expert in Liverpool (Yell.com) still no luck, again they tried it with suspension back at normal ride height and still the same. Mechanic advised since my mot was due he would check if there was and problem with the ball joint or bearings and so forth. MOT passed and never told me of any faults (which makes me think he never really checked otherwise I would be asking for my money back for the tracking.

The front driver side tyre has wear on the inside only, the passenger front seems fine all the way across. Where's the place to take xantia's for tracking? (Preston, Lancashire area).

All help appreciated.

[demag]

Inside wear would suggest the wheel has been tracking to the right which would give the results you experienced. If the tyre has worn on one side you might need to fit a better tyre to run straight. Is the spare any good?

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Tapatalk

[Mandrake]

2001 Xantia Hatch 110 hdi

Since buying the car it seems to pull to the right when steering is positioned straight,

Just so we're clear, you're saying if you hold the wheel in the straight ahead position the car drives to the right ? What about if you let go of the wheel ?

To me "pulls" to the right implies a tracking, geometry, or tyre problem such that on flat level ground the car will pull to one side if the wheel is released.

Driving to the right when the wheel is held in the straight ahead position can be a different thing altogether - it can be caused by the steering wheel being positioned wrong on the splines (only if tampered with previously) an imbalance in the tyres, worn suspension bushes (lower arm) or the tracking being adjusted on only one side such that the trackrod ends are different lengths thus the steering rack and steering wheel are offset for the car to go straight ahead.

Unfortunately the "experts" are frequently lazy and will adjust the toe in/out on one side only which means you end up with the steering rack and steering wheel offset when the car is driving straight ahead!

This happened to me at national auto-care - although they got the toe out correct they only adjusted one side so the steering wheel was clearly offset to one side. I ended up doing the tracking myself using a home made laser tracking system (a couple of laser spirit levels and some sight boards ) and got it bang on and centred properly.

so I took it to kwik fit to get it laser aligned (don't ask) they first set the tracking on normal height, better but still when steering straight drifting to the right.

But did they adjust the track rods on both sides ? The toe out on the wheels must be equal when the steering wheel is straight ahead. Many don't bother to check this.

Second attempt was with it fully raised after I spoke to a random citroen expert in Liverpool (Yell.com)

You can cross that "expert" off your expert list, the tracking should never be checked with the suspension at maximum height, all geometry checks and adjustments should be done at normal ride height, in fact you should avoid getting in and out of the car while doing the checks and have the engine idling to make sure normal ride height is maintained. (I did when I did my wheel alignment)

still no luck, again they tried it with suspension back at normal ride height and still the same. Mechanic advised since my mot was due he would check if there was and problem with the ball joint or bearings and so forth. MOT passed and never told me of any faults (which makes me think he never really checked otherwise I would be asking for my money back for the tracking.

The front driver side tyre has wear on the inside only, the passenger front seems fine all the way across.

So there was definitely no play in the track rod joints or the lower arm bushes ? If either of those are badly worn there is no point trying to set the tracking as it will be all over the place and not stay where you set it.

Are you sure the car hasn't had a prang in the front corner before you bought it ? If there has been impact damage the suspension arm or the chassis may be slightly bent making it nearly impossible to get the tracking perfect.

My Dad's Xantia had had a moderate impact in the front left corner before he bought it, enough that the front wing needed straightening slightly, we found the lower suspension arm was also bent back about 5mm at the balljoint end so we replaced the arm - we couldn't find anything else wrong (with basic measurement tools anyway) but the car never tracked perfectly and always pulled slightly to the left despite adjusting the tracking.

Wear on the inside of only one tyre would suggest to me that either there is a worn track rod joint on that side, or the lower arm bush is worn causing it to have too much "flex" under acceleration, or that there is excessive toe out. With a large amount of toe out one tyre (with a bit better grip) can become the dominant tyre that steers the car with the other tyre scuffing at an angle. The more the scuffing tyre wears the more it loses grip and the more dominant the other tyre becomes.

What toe out figure were they trying to adjust to and did they give you any printouts of the tracking before and after ? To try and solve this sort of tricky problem you need hard facts on what they're doing. From memory a Xantia should be 0 to 3mm toe OUT, and I set mine to 1.5mm toe out.

It could also be that poorly set tracking has worn one tyre badly enough that there is enough of a tyre imbalance now that even with the tracking set properly it may pull slightly, so you may need to do something with the tyres, but only after you're sure the tracking is correct. You could try swapping front left and right wheels - if the pulling swaps to the other side its the tyres causing it, if it stays on the same side its suspension/tracking related. (or just an offset steering wheel)

Unfortunately accurately setting and measuring the tracking takes some skill and time, a lot of the tyre/exhaust shops simply don't or can't do a good job. If you see them making adjustments on only one side straight away you know they're not doing the job properly - probably because the adjustment on the other side is rusted and they can't get it freed up.

One thing you can check for yourself is to make sure the steering wheel turns exactly the same number of turns and degrees from straight ahead in both directions - count the number of rotations then try to judge the angle that the wheel ends up at when it hits the stop, then compare this angle to the angle that it stops at in the other direction - the angles should be exactly equal and opposite. (Taking a digital photo of both might make it easier to see)

If not someone has had the steering wheel off at some point and has put it back on on the wrong spline - so this needs to be fixed first before any more tracking attempts are made. A single spline will throw the angle out about 10 degrees or so.

Good luck.

[vborovic]

Just jumping in to say to Mandrake "Hats off to you" for the encyclopedic-level post reply ... ...

[isisalar]

One of the knowledgeable indy's I use once told me that he knew of no other car that was more sensitive to tyre issues than Xantia's. Just having different tyres on the same axle will cause a pull to one side or another, as Simon says you need to eliminate the tyres from the equation.
Cheers
Paul

[Peter.N.]

Its usually a tyre problem unless something has been damaged, try swapping the front wheels round and see if that changes things.

Peter

[taffy]

tyre pressures too..

[xantiagreen]

2001 Xantia Hatch 110 hdi

Since buying the car it seems to pull to the right when steering is positioned straight,

Just so we're clear, you're saying if you hold the wheel in the straight ahead position the car drives to the right ? What about if you let go of the wheel ?

To me "pulls" to the right implies a tracking, geometry, or tyre problem such that on flat level ground the car will pull to one side if the wheel is released.

Driving to the right when the wheel is held in the straight ahead position can be a different thing altogether - it can be caused by the steering wheel being positioned wrong on the splines (only if tampered with previously) an imbalance in the tyres, worn suspension bushes (lower arm) or the tracking being adjusted on only one side such that the trackrod ends are different lengths thus the steering rack and steering wheel are offset for the car to go straight ahead.

Unfortunately the "experts" are frequently lazy and will adjust the toe in/out on one side only which means you end up with the steering rack and steering wheel offset when the car is driving straight ahead!

This happened to me at national auto-care - although they got the toe out correct they only adjusted one side so the steering wheel was clearly offset to one side. I ended up doing the tracking myself using a home made laser tracking system (a couple of laser spirit levels and some sight boards ) and got it bang on and centred properly.

so I took it to kwik fit to get it laser aligned (don't ask) they first set the tracking on normal height, better but still when steering straight drifting to the right.

But did they adjust the track rods on both sides ? The toe out on the wheels must be equal when the steering wheel is straight ahead. Many don't bother to check this.

Second attempt was with it fully raised after I spoke to a random citroen expert in Liverpool (Yell.com)

You can cross that "expert" off your expert list, the tracking should never be checked with the suspension at maximum height, all geometry checks and adjustments should be done at normal ride height, in fact you should avoid getting in and out of the car while doing the checks and have the engine idling to make sure normal ride height is maintained. (I did when I did my wheel alignment)

still no luck, again they tried it with suspension back at normal ride height and still the same. Mechanic advised since my mot was due he would check if there was and problem with the ball joint or bearings and so forth. MOT passed and never told me of any faults (which makes me think he never really checked otherwise I would be asking for my money back for the tracking.

The front driver side tyre has wear on the inside only, the passenger front seems fine all the way across.

So there was definitely no play in the track rod joints or the lower arm bushes ? If either of those are badly worn there is no point trying to set the tracking as it will be all over the place and not stay where you set it.

Are you sure the car hasn't had a prang in the front corner before you bought it ? If there has been impact damage the suspension arm or the chassis may be slightly bent making it nearly impossible to get the tracking perfect.

My Dad's Xantia had had a moderate impact in the front left corner before he bought it, enough that the front wing needed straightening slightly, we found the lower suspension arm was also bent back about 5mm at the balljoint end so we replaced the arm - we couldn't find anything else wrong (with basic measurement tools anyway) but the car never tracked perfectly and always pulled slightly to the left despite adjusting the tracking.

Wear on the inside of only one tyre would suggest to me that either there is a worn track rod joint on that side, or the lower arm bush is worn causing it to have too much "flex" under acceleration, or that there is excessive toe out. With a large amount of toe out one tyre (with a bit better grip) can become the dominant tyre that steers the car with the other tyre scuffing at an angle. The more the scuffing tyre wears the more it loses grip and the more dominant the other tyre becomes.

What toe out figure were they trying to adjust to and did they give you any printouts of the tracking before and after ? To try and solve this sort of tricky problem you need hard facts on what they're doing. From memory a Xantia should be 0 to 3mm toe OUT, and I set mine to 1.5mm toe out.

It could also be that poorly set tracking has worn one tyre badly enough that there is enough of a tyre imbalance now that even with the tracking set properly it may pull slightly, so you may need to do something with the tyres, but only after you're sure the tracking is correct. You could try swapping front left and right wheels - if the pulling swaps to the other side its the tyres causing it, if it stays on the same side its suspension/tracking related. (or just an offset steering wheel)

Unfortunately accurately setting and measuring the tracking takes some skill and time, a lot of the tyre/exhaust shops simply don't or can't do a good job. If you see them making adjustments on only one side straight away you know they're not doing the job properly - probably because the adjustment on the other side is rusted and they can't get it freed up.

One thing you can check for yourself is to make sure the steering wheel turns exactly the same number of turns and degrees from straight ahead in both directions - count the number of rotations then try to judge the angle that the wheel ends up at when it hits the stop, then compare this angle to the angle that it stops at in the other direction - the angles should be exactly equal and opposite. (Taking a digital photo of both might make it easier to see)

If not someone has had the steering wheel off at some point and has put it back on on the wrong spline - so this needs to be fixed first before any more tracking attempts are made. A single spline will throw the angle out about 10 degrees or so.

Good luck.

Thanks for replying, The front tyres where in good condition but I cannot remember if the tyre was starting to or had any wear, also just to edit previous message when I straighten the steering and keep it there the car is driving slightly to the right, when I move the steering to the left to compensate it drives straight but the steering is not straight and you can tell if you're sat behind the wheel. Invoices show that the car was tracked twice in 2 months by previous owner back in 2010, do you know of any garages that are know how to properly align the wheels on xantia's. Car looks straight no panel changes everything looks original, no overspray or tell tail signs.

[Peter.N.]

When correcting inaccurate tracking, if you think about how it needs correcting, you can usually get away with adjusting one side which will bring the steering wheel back to the straight ahead position.

I would definitely try swapping the front wheels round, I had an XM which pulled to the offside from the time I bought it until the front tyres needed changing, once I changed them it steered straight!

Peter

[xantiagreen]

Mechanic will be looking at tracking next Friday and will fix, no problem with bushes or ball joints. He informs its a case of not done properly by KWIK FIT. Just needs a good rub down and bit of touching up (Ooh err mrs) and it'll look grand I say.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Just thought worth posting this as I recently bought 4 new tyres for my Xantia estate and wondered what the coloured lines were for on the new treads, to my surprise I could have made a mistake having them fitted and they could have pulled to one side or the other.
they had no directional fitting arrows on them. here is the info that (apparently) tyre fitters are not aware of (I asked)
Well worth a look. with the Xantia being so sensitive it could literally just be the tyres causing the pulling effect, dependant upon the run out and how the tyres were fitted originally.

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/ ... wtopic=165" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I bought my 175/65/R15 tyres here

http://www.valuetyres.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

at £33.80 each delivered they are branded Primewell. the grip and ride is superb the walls are soft like a Dunlop tyre which improves the ride significantly on my Xantia even with six relatively new spheres fitted.
of course you will need a tyre fitter but I have two used tyre suppliers locally one charges £7.50 incl disposal and the other one a tenner, I saved £20 a tyre not going to one of the Big tyre fitters in Town.
regards. Nigel.

[myglaren]

That is some very interesting and relevant information there Nigel. Often wondered what the bands signified.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Yes I even sent a link to valuetyres.co.uk hoping that they didn't take offense I did thank them for sending me
tyres with identical markings though.
regards Nigel.

[xantiagreen]

That is a worthy post, will check my next set of front tyres for the banding. Although both the front tyres were fitted new same brand and pattern, definitely a KWIK FIT cock up. Hope it's fixed this Friday otherwise i'll be driving with the steering more to the right and having to do the gangster lean pose with elbow pointing outwards to drive in straight line...

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Xantiagreen,

I cant help wondering if you handbrake cable has partially seized on one side making it hard to pull on if so it may not be releasing properly because of corrosion inside as the casing. its easy enough to check by removing a front wheel and checking the travel of the handbrake cable lever on the top of the calliper, if an inexperienced garage has tightened the handbrake cable where they attach to these calliper levers and got the balance wrong because the adjustment was done with the vechicle was on the ground at the time it could very well be an over tightened cable acting on the calliper lever and causing drag on one side. this adjustment needs to be done front wheels raised off the ground on a Xantia, is there any chance you have had a new handbrake cable fitted before this problem started?
I am also wondering if you might have a stuck or sticking brake calliper piston holding the front brakes on slightly on one side of the car, or maybe like me you don't carry a passenger very often and one brake disk has worn unevenly compared to the other, all possible causes of pulling to one side. if you let go of the steering wheel(hands hovering over the steering wheel) and brake gently does the steering wheel turn to one side or does the car just follow the camber of the road (normal behaviour)? uneven tyre wear is also caused by fast cornering in the Xantia the uneven tyre wear could be causing the pulling alone. softened Bottom swing arm bushes can also do this by allowing the bottom arm to pull back whilst going forwards it does sound like it may well be this especially as it is as you say Pulling to the right. a distracted MOT tester could miss this easily, especially on a stationary vechicle the rear rubber bush is encased in a metal sleeve and wears more on the inside. Chances are though that its Just another KwiK Fit Bodge Up, like their air con top up service you go in with some air con slightly cool breeze in the cabin and come away with no air -con warm breeze in the cabin. you have been warned there are lots of complaints online about their air-con service but I have always found them a handy source of exhaust brackets on the cheap if I ever need a new one 50p each. I had to go back six times to have my KwiK fit exhaust downpipe retightened as it kept coming loose on my Xantia.