Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Moderator: RichardW
Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
if ur getting power when key off is there an ignition relay conected anywhere? cause insnt the ingition suppost to cut the power to those relays/energise?
if u disconect the window motor do u still get 10v at 600?
if u disconect the window motor do u still get 10v at 600?
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Taffy
Fuse F27 is a permanent live feed from the battery. After the fuse it splits with a permanent live feed to pin 5 on the connectors to the modules/motors in the doors and another feed to Relay 6021 pin 3. Relay 6021 is controlled by an ignition switched supply via fuse F30. When relay 6021 is energised it switches the power on to circuit 600 which is the supply to the window switches. Relay 6021 is functioning correctly and is being switched on and off with the ignition. However regardless of what relay 6021 and the ignition are doing circuit 600 is permanently live which is the problem.
Fuse F27 is a permanent live feed from the battery. After the fuse it splits with a permanent live feed to pin 5 on the connectors to the modules/motors in the doors and another feed to Relay 6021 pin 3. Relay 6021 is controlled by an ignition switched supply via fuse F30. When relay 6021 is energised it switches the power on to circuit 600 which is the supply to the window switches. Relay 6021 is functioning correctly and is being switched on and off with the ignition. However regardless of what relay 6021 and the ignition are doing circuit 600 is permanently live which is the problem.
Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
so maybe disconect motors first and check,its all interlinked like u say ;( then try the switchs one by one..
something even like water or liquid damage to the window switch possibly could cause this
something even like water or liquid damage to the window switch possibly could cause this
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Ok solved and not solved. Had another "play" with the car and the fault has gone!!!
The short circuit was sufficiently robust to power both front windows at the same time.
Decided to find out how much current the windows draw when being operated so put a meter across in place of fuse F27 - current peaked at just under 5 amps
so 10 amps for the pair. F27 is a 30 amp fuse which seems a bit OTT.
Thought I would then see what current was flowing through F27 when the window switches were illuminated but the windows not being operated. I was struggling to get the meter probes in position so pulled the fuse box about a bit to try and get it in a better position, still didn't seem to be able to get a reading. Popped the fuse back in (ignition off) the switches didn't light up, windows not working. Switched ignition on, switches lit up, windows worked.
So the problem is fixed (for now) but without me know exactly what/ where it was however I've narrowed it down to the fuse box area which will be my first place to start if it reappears.
Rory
The short circuit was sufficiently robust to power both front windows at the same time.
Decided to find out how much current the windows draw when being operated so put a meter across in place of fuse F27 - current peaked at just under 5 amps
so 10 amps for the pair. F27 is a 30 amp fuse which seems a bit OTT.
Thought I would then see what current was flowing through F27 when the window switches were illuminated but the windows not being operated. I was struggling to get the meter probes in position so pulled the fuse box about a bit to try and get it in a better position, still didn't seem to be able to get a reading. Popped the fuse back in (ignition off) the switches didn't light up, windows not working. Switched ignition on, switches lit up, windows worked.
So the problem is fixed (for now) but without me know exactly what/ where it was however I've narrowed it down to the fuse box area which will be my first place to start if it reappears.
Rory
Last edited by rory_perrett on 02 Jan 2014, 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Fuse box itself, OR wires behind it.. Have you ever seen the wires behind there!!??? Theres urrrrmmmm one or two bunched together..
Pleanty of fuse box's here, so many now, Im throwing them away!
Pleanty of fuse box's here, so many now, Im throwing them away!
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
well done !
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
I suspect the wires behind. I know exactly what is behind there as I had to disembowel it when I was trying to sort out my non working blower fan a while back. Too dark and cold for me to investigate further tonight. There is so much crammed in there, but I now know which plug it is and which wires to focus on. The wires for fuses F27 and F30 are on the same plug (13V) it will be interesting so see how close they are together.
Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Edit: replied to a post on the first page without noticing the 5 posts on the second page that came after it and that the problem was solved!
Try measuring the voltage on all the other fuses in the fuse box, I bet there will be one with 10 volts on it, then you'll know where it was shorting to...
Try measuring the voltage on all the other fuses in the fuse box, I bet there will be one with 10 volts on it, then you'll know where it was shorting to...
Simon
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
IF the car is a Series Two, which it seems to be as S2 exclusives were the only car to have one touch ALL round in the Xantias then the Controllers are BUILT INTO The winder motor, and are piggybacked onto the motor with the multi plug on the end..
The S1 cars and S2 LX and SX cars only have one touch on the drivers. S2 One touch are still built into the motor.
ALL S1 One touch control modules are a seperate box .. but there is ALSO an operation change on S1 cars and dont quote me, I cannot remember when each was fitted. One operation was a SINGLE quick press to activate the window down, press again to stop, where the other was press and HOLD the button for 2 seconds or more for the windows one touch to operate..
This was just to clear up window operation INCASE there was an uncertainity.. I dont think its the door module/motors either.
The S1 cars and S2 LX and SX cars only have one touch on the drivers. S2 One touch are still built into the motor.
ALL S1 One touch control modules are a seperate box .. but there is ALSO an operation change on S1 cars and dont quote me, I cannot remember when each was fitted. One operation was a SINGLE quick press to activate the window down, press again to stop, where the other was press and HOLD the button for 2 seconds or more for the windows one touch to operate..
This was just to clear up window operation INCASE there was an uncertainity.. I dont think its the door module/motors either.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Hello, I have a problem with my Xantia's driver window and it appears the problem is the anti-pinch device in the mechanism, according to the mechanic who check it. Do you know if I can replace just this device or do I have to get the whole mechanism?
Thank you for your help!
Thank you for your help!
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
It may be because there is some resistance to the window moving Luis... This may cause the Anti-Pinch to operate.
This may be caused by a build-up of dirt and contamination on the window guide rails.
Try dismantling and cleaning the window glass guide rails...
This may be caused by a build-up of dirt and contamination on the window guide rails.
Try dismantling and cleaning the window glass guide rails...
Jim
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
Hi, Jim,
Let me share some more details. When it stops working, I slightly punch the door, and then it works, but only in small lenghts, ie, I have to press the button a few times to close the window, it would only climb a small but the same height each time. This problem became more and more frequent.
The mechanic tested the mechanism and told me that the anti-pinch was malfunctioning, and that there was signs of humidity there.
I don't really know if the anti-pinch is a device that can be replaced...
Let me share some more details. When it stops working, I slightly punch the door, and then it works, but only in small lenghts, ie, I have to press the button a few times to close the window, it would only climb a small but the same height each time. This problem became more and more frequent.
The mechanic tested the mechanism and told me that the anti-pinch was malfunctioning, and that there was signs of humidity there.
I don't really know if the anti-pinch is a device that can be replaced...
Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
It's very unlikely to be the anti-pinch "malfunctioning".
All anti-pinch is, is some circuitry in the motor controller that measures the current drain of the motor as the window moves - when the path of the window is obstructed (or it hits the top) the current drain of the motor goes up due to the motor being loaded and this is sensed by the controller which switches off the motor.
So, either there is high friction in the movement of the window or the motor itself is faulty. Most likely when you punch the door the glass moves in the guide tracks a bit and this is enough to get it moving a bit. It's possible but not likely that the motor is seizing.
If it were my car I'd take the door liner off, thoroughly clean the guide tracks for the glass and put a bit of grease in the groove where the glass slides. If it still has trouble after that check that the adjustment of the guide tracks is correct (parallel with the glass) and leaves a small amount of play for the glass so that it doesn't get wedged between the tracks.
I'd say this problem is almost certainly mechanical and shouldn't be hard to find and fix.
All anti-pinch is, is some circuitry in the motor controller that measures the current drain of the motor as the window moves - when the path of the window is obstructed (or it hits the top) the current drain of the motor goes up due to the motor being loaded and this is sensed by the controller which switches off the motor.
So, either there is high friction in the movement of the window or the motor itself is faulty. Most likely when you punch the door the glass moves in the guide tracks a bit and this is enough to get it moving a bit. It's possible but not likely that the motor is seizing.
If it were my car I'd take the door liner off, thoroughly clean the guide tracks for the glass and put a bit of grease in the groove where the glass slides. If it still has trouble after that check that the adjustment of the guide tracks is correct (parallel with the glass) and leaves a small amount of play for the glass so that it doesn't get wedged between the tracks.
I'd say this problem is almost certainly mechanical and shouldn't be hard to find and fix.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
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1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
As already stated, I agree with you on this Simon
Jim
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Re: Xantia Electric Windows Gremlins.
It may also need resetting.
Run the glass to the top of its travel and keep the button held down for at least ten seconds, this will reset the anti pinch.
Going up in small increments is typical of one in need of resetting.
Run the glass to the top of its travel and keep the button held down for at least ten seconds, this will reset the anti pinch.
Going up in small increments is typical of one in need of resetting.