Xantia pumps?
Moderator: RichardW
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Xantia pumps?
Right, I finally have a couple of weeks to work on the Xantia over the festive period!
My question concerns the pumps. What pumps drive the suspension, brakes, and steering, or do they all go through one specific pump? Finally, I have a DW10ATED, are the pumps from every other engine option available to the Xantia cross-compatible?
Thanks!
My question concerns the pumps. What pumps drive the suspension, brakes, and steering, or do they all go through one specific pump? Finally, I have a DW10ATED, are the pumps from every other engine option available to the Xantia cross-compatible?
Thanks!
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Re: Xantia pumps?
As far as I know the Hdi uses the standard hydraulic pump used across the range but there are variations according to engine and possibly age, the diesels for instance will have a smaller pulley because of the lower revs. I would suspect that if a replacement looks right it probably is.
Peter
Peter
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Re: Xantia pumps?
So it is just the one pump? Are the pulleys easy to change over?
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Re: Xantia pumps?
Theres MORE to it then that. I thought this, BUT firstly, NO the pullys are heat fitted on Im sure, and there IS a difference in seating position. Some pump pullys will not line up correctly with the rest of the pullys on the engine for Altinator, Air Con and tenioner and crank pullys, SO pump changes need carefully selecting...
AS for your other Q, yes, Brakes, Suspension and PAS is all fed and supplied through the same pump
AS for your other Q, yes, Brakes, Suspension and PAS is all fed and supplied through the same pump
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Re: Xantia pumps?
Apart from the V6 with its unique pump the pumps are all more or less the same design, HOWEVER the devil is in the details, there are something like a dozen variations on the pump design, depending on year, engine type, A/C fitted or not etc, with different pulleys, different mounting bracket alignments, and different locations for the inlet and outlet pipes. (For example on some the inlet pipe is in front of the outlet pipes, on others it is behind!)
So while they look superficially the same different variations will NOT fit. So be careful when choosing a pump. Your best bet is to look up your specific hydraulic pump on service.citroen.com by doing a VIN number lookup, then look up the pump for the Xantia in general (non-specific search) to see which other models of Xantia share the same pump based on a matching part number.
So while they look superficially the same different variations will NOT fit. So be careful when choosing a pump. Your best bet is to look up your specific hydraulic pump on service.citroen.com by doing a VIN number lookup, then look up the pump for the Xantia in general (non-specific search) to see which other models of Xantia share the same pump based on a matching part number.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 71
Re: Xantia pumps?
The only engine to have different output port locations is the tct petrol activa and 2.0i 8v petrol engines.
The derv outlet ports be it xud or hdi are in the same place but the difference is alignment of the pullys which is important else you will get belt run off or ridge skip..
However it be safe to say all the hdi pumps (only one engine type but two bhp outputs which doesnt affect the pump) use the same pump.. so if you need a hdi one.. get another from a hdi..
The derv outlet ports be it xud or hdi are in the same place but the difference is alignment of the pullys which is important else you will get belt run off or ridge skip..
However it be safe to say all the hdi pumps (only one engine type but two bhp outputs which doesnt affect the pump) use the same pump.. so if you need a hdi one.. get another from a hdi..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Re: Xantia pumps?
Thank you all for the advice
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Re: Xantia pumps?
Right, I got myself a new pump (Thanks Paul!) And the car feels much better, brakes are coming up to pressure quicker and the car height adjusts faster too.
The steering is still quite heavy at low speeds though, is this just a quirk of these cars? The fluid was changed a couple of months ago too for good measure.
Sent from my HUAWEI P2-6011 using Tapatalk
The steering is still quite heavy at low speeds though, is this just a quirk of these cars? The fluid was changed a couple of months ago too for good measure.
Sent from my HUAWEI P2-6011 using Tapatalk
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- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
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L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 71
Re: Xantia pumps?
What or more so How Clean are/were the filters in the LHM tank? They need to be spotlessly clean, theres two of them, a D shaped one and a long Conical one.
PAS is more fluid quantity flow rather then outright high pressure... If your filters are spotless the other thing can be the lower UJ joint, which you can get at through the drivers wheel arch when the car is on high. They can and do sieze up.
PAS is more fluid quantity flow rather then outright high pressure... If your filters are spotless the other thing can be the lower UJ joint, which you can get at through the drivers wheel arch when the car is on high. They can and do sieze up.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Re: Xantia pumps?
I gave the filters a thorough clean with Lotoxane degreasant and left them to dry for a bit.
Didn't think about the UJ, primarily because I know what a bugger they are to change!
Sent from my HUAWEI P2-6011 using Tapatalk
Didn't think about the UJ, primarily because I know what a bugger they are to change!
Sent from my HUAWEI P2-6011 using Tapatalk
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Re: Xantia pumps?
It's perhaps worth pointing out for the benefit of others referring to this thread that, apart from early 'sinkers', all Xantia have two hydraulic pumps in one casing which share a common suction feed from the reservoir but otherwise quite separate. One pump provides the high volume (at variable pressure) required by the PAS, the other feeds the Pressure Regulator and Accumulator Sphere that supplies hydraulic power at constant high pressure to the front and rear suspension circuits and thence (at pressures determined by suspension load) separately to front and rear brake circuits via the 'doseur' valve which takes the place of a conventional brake master cylinder.
Now that all Xantias are getting on in years, a common problem that shows up as heavy steering and occasional odd behaviour by the suspension (and brakes) is air ingress into the pump suction pipe - assuming that the pick-up filter is clean (and that the reservoir level is correct), the air gets in in that part of the pick-up pipery that's above the LHM level in the reservoir (i.e. below atmospheric pressure). It's worth remembering that LHM (and diesel) are enormously more viscous ('thicker') than air; so when pressure in a perished pipe is below atmospheric, air can and will easily get sucked in through cracks that liquids can't leak out of until the pressure different in the opposite direction is many hundreds of times greater. The solution is to replace suspect pipes with new.
Now that all Xantias are getting on in years, a common problem that shows up as heavy steering and occasional odd behaviour by the suspension (and brakes) is air ingress into the pump suction pipe - assuming that the pick-up filter is clean (and that the reservoir level is correct), the air gets in in that part of the pick-up pipery that's above the LHM level in the reservoir (i.e. below atmospheric pressure). It's worth remembering that LHM (and diesel) are enormously more viscous ('thicker') than air; so when pressure in a perished pipe is below atmospheric, air can and will easily get sucked in through cracks that liquids can't leak out of until the pressure different in the opposite direction is many hundreds of times greater. The solution is to replace suspect pipes with new.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
- Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
- My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 71
Re: Xantia pumps?
Good advice guy.. but the suction pipes are probably nfp and will be increasingly harder to find now.
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Re: Xantia pumps?
No need to go to the stealers for the feed pipe. I've done this job twice now. I posted this back in the summer
Re Simon's post regarding air leaks in the tank to pump feed line. I replaced mine completely prior to doing the o rings in the pump, and it seems to be working perfectly. Also did same on the old VSX.
The elbows on the pump end and elsewhere are certainly weak points and trying to copy the original pipe run is almost impossible. I can only speak of the HDI and the 1.9 td but in both cases by re routing the pipe it's been a very simple and effective job. In both cases the elbows are completely unnecessary. Here's a couple of pics of the HDI.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5ttpnehfvrr8 ... .30.49.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4npuk0jyuihu ... .31.11.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the HDI the tank end spigot is just a little too small, by less 1mm, to give a snug fit in the 1/2" fuel grade tubing readily available, so I built it up a little with a bit of PTFE tape, was going to use amalgam tape but the hydraulics place the bits came from recommended the PTFE. This is also used, internally, to seal the aluminium to brass reducer, necessary for the 3/8" tube going on to the pump, this was a good fit on the HDI. Obviously jubilee clips where necessary.
There's even a handy hook on top of the rad to tuck the pipe into and cable ties can be used to support if needed. I left the original pipe in situ, can always use if the other's leaking.
I originally tried Pirtek for the bits but they were unable to supply a suitable joiner at all, as luck would have it, next door to Pirtek were these guys http://www.hopespare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who had the bits to make up a good joiner,were cheaper, and a lot more helpful. They're only down South but may do a postal service.
Not sure if this would work on the v6 but hopefully this may help anyone whose Xantia feels like a skateboard over little bumps. Do the pump o rings as well, very easy too on the HDI, and all else being well, it will transform your car.
Since doing this the ride did start to deteriorate slightly so I checked how tight the jubilee clips were and they were a little loose, possibly stretched in the hot weather, further tightening and the ride is now lovely and improving all the time, steering also a bit lighter.
Cheers
Paul
Re Simon's post regarding air leaks in the tank to pump feed line. I replaced mine completely prior to doing the o rings in the pump, and it seems to be working perfectly. Also did same on the old VSX.
The elbows on the pump end and elsewhere are certainly weak points and trying to copy the original pipe run is almost impossible. I can only speak of the HDI and the 1.9 td but in both cases by re routing the pipe it's been a very simple and effective job. In both cases the elbows are completely unnecessary. Here's a couple of pics of the HDI.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5ttpnehfvrr8 ... .30.49.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4npuk0jyuihu ... .31.11.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the HDI the tank end spigot is just a little too small, by less 1mm, to give a snug fit in the 1/2" fuel grade tubing readily available, so I built it up a little with a bit of PTFE tape, was going to use amalgam tape but the hydraulics place the bits came from recommended the PTFE. This is also used, internally, to seal the aluminium to brass reducer, necessary for the 3/8" tube going on to the pump, this was a good fit on the HDI. Obviously jubilee clips where necessary.
There's even a handy hook on top of the rad to tuck the pipe into and cable ties can be used to support if needed. I left the original pipe in situ, can always use if the other's leaking.
I originally tried Pirtek for the bits but they were unable to supply a suitable joiner at all, as luck would have it, next door to Pirtek were these guys http://www.hopespare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who had the bits to make up a good joiner,were cheaper, and a lot more helpful. They're only down South but may do a postal service.
Not sure if this would work on the v6 but hopefully this may help anyone whose Xantia feels like a skateboard over little bumps. Do the pump o rings as well, very easy too on the HDI, and all else being well, it will transform your car.
Since doing this the ride did start to deteriorate slightly so I checked how tight the jubilee clips were and they were a little loose, possibly stretched in the hot weather, further tightening and the ride is now lovely and improving all the time, steering also a bit lighter.
Cheers
Paul
J reg 1.9d auto BX first Citroen
M reg 1.9d auto Xantia lx
N reg 1.9 td Xantia VSX Estate
T reg 2.0HDI Xantia Exclusive Estate Present car
M reg 106 diesel red
L reg 106 diesel white
02 Saxo 1.1i desire wife's present car(sadly now very ill cambelt gone- Doh)
M reg 1.9d auto Xantia lx
N reg 1.9 td Xantia VSX Estate
T reg 2.0HDI Xantia Exclusive Estate Present car
M reg 106 diesel red
L reg 106 diesel white
02 Saxo 1.1i desire wife's present car(sadly now very ill cambelt gone- Doh)