Well I phoned up Desihose to order a couple of metres of PIPER 1TE in 12.7mm bore:
http://www.desihose.co.uk/viewproduct.aspx?pid=1135#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unfortunately they are out of stock in that size for several weeks, the guy I spoke to suggested the PIPER 2TE:
http://www.desihose.co.uk/viewproduct.aspx?pid=29#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which he said is very similar but has slightly more polyester reinforcement. I notice from the listing that it says its still very flexible (good, I don't want it too stiff so it seals well on the spigots) and has the same outside diameter, also the outer layer is oil resistant nitrile rubber as well as the inside (its not clear on the 1TE listing but only the inside may be oil resistant on that one making it susceptible to oil spills in the engine bay) so we'll see how it goes.
£7/metre plus delivery with a minimum order of two metres, so I thought I might as well get three meters - that way I'll have plenty left over after cutting a few short lengths so that I could potentially replace the entire length of hose from tank to pump with no joiners using an alternative route similar to what Paul did above. I'll try just replacing the joiners at both ends first though as I would prefer the tidy routing of the original pipe that runs under the engine top cover.
I'll report back on whether the ride improves or not - it seems to vary from day to day, some days its very harsh indeed over cats eyes and potholes other days its not too bad. There is definitely a small amount of weeping at the joints so I have no doubt there is an air leak.
It also does seem like the front suspension height is sometimes creeping up during driving - the "ratcheting" (or rectification) effect I theorised about recently - if I push the manual height lever forward for a couple of seconds while driving it drops down a bit and the ride becomes a lot less fidgety. So when the winter clears I really need to check the manual override adjustment and also the freeness of the front height corrector linkage assembly which to be honest I haven't touched since I've had the car.
Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
Moderator: RichardW
Re: Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
Hi Guys,
An update on the air leak issue - the hose I ordered from Desihose arrived the next day (!) but I didn't get a chance to fit it until last weekend due to weather etc...
It's a snug but perfect fit at the pump end (the V6 pump spigot is 13mm not 10mm like most other Xantia pumps) I actually had to grease the inside of the hose to push the plastic spigot into it as you can't exert too much force on the plastic spigot (even though its metal reinforced on the inside) but once it was on I knew it was a perfect fit.
The tank end was a bit more problematic.
Although it doesn't look it, the plastic spigot on the tank end of the hose seems to be larger than the other end, and it was quite a struggle to get the spigot to push into the new section of hose. A bit of stretching of the hose with needle nose pliers, grease and persistence was required. For this spigot 13mm would have been a better option than 12.7mm. Here is an old picture showing the spigot in question:
![Image](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7826218/Forum%20attachments/Photo%2006-07-2013%2008%2002%2001%20PM.jpg)
On the other hand the spigot on the tank itself was quite a lot smaller, the 12.7mm hose did fit but it could have been tighter. 13mm would have been too loose. I was tempted to try some of Paul's suggestion of some PTFE tape to build up the diameter of the spigot on the tank but I didn't have any to hand.
Another thing I noticed while doing this is that there is a tiny hairline crack right along the length of the plastic on the spigot on the hose.
The plastic is reinforced with metal on the inside so its still strong, but I wonder whether some air could get in along that tiny hairline crack... Nothing I can do about it really other than replace the entire length form tank to pump.
After getting it back together and getting the pump primed etc I did 2-3 rounds of citrerobics. It was at this point that I noticed (or at least confirmed my suspicion) that my front height corrector linkage is indeed sticky - a couple of times when the car was completely lowered if I then raised the manual height lever to full height the front stayed down while the back lifted...
If I then lowered it again then set it to normal height instead of maximum it lifted normally.
Although the ride height at the front is correct when tested under static conditions I've been suspicious for quite a while that the ride height is intermittently incorrect while driving (usually too high) so confirmation of a sticking height corrector linkage would seem to indicate that some of the poor ride quality I've seen recently is due to poor regulation of the ride height under dynamic conditions.
Anyway I took it for a drive and although the ride is still quite firm (the spheres are definitely down on gas quite a bit) 80% of the harshness was gone right away.
Over smaller broken surfaces the harshness was completely gone, only over deep potholes was there still a bit of harshness.
Over the last week the car has been driven normally with no further citrerobics and the ride has continued to improve to the point where there is no longer any harshness - improving without citrerobics sessions is a good sign IMO that the air leak problems have been solved, as the small amount of self bleeding when the suspension goes down each night (mine does drop a couple of inches over night) is enough to gradually flush out any remaining bubbles. If there was any significant air leakage it would gradually get worse with normal use, not better.
So I'm satisfied that despite the slightly suspicious hairline fracture I found and the hose not being an ideal fit at the tank end, that the air leaks have been solved for now. At some point in the future I may pull the hose off the tank and wrap the tank spigot with some PTFE tape as Paul did to get a slightly better fit - but that's easy to do.
Now that the harshness is gone what still remains is that the struts spheres are indeed fairly low on pressure but not dangerously low - the ride is firmer than it should be but not harsh. It's also very clear that the front ride height is sometimes jacking itself up a bit causing the ride to become "fidgety" and rock slightly side to side on uneven bumps - if I push the height control forward for a couple of seconds so the front drops slightly the fidgetyness goes away immediately.
So in the summer I'm going to have to get both height corrector linkages out (the rear one is sticky too and doesn't regulate the height as accurately as it should) and clean/lubricate them properly. Joy!
Hopefully by then I will have my own Garage to work in.
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
An update on the air leak issue - the hose I ordered from Desihose arrived the next day (!) but I didn't get a chance to fit it until last weekend due to weather etc...
It's a snug but perfect fit at the pump end (the V6 pump spigot is 13mm not 10mm like most other Xantia pumps) I actually had to grease the inside of the hose to push the plastic spigot into it as you can't exert too much force on the plastic spigot (even though its metal reinforced on the inside) but once it was on I knew it was a perfect fit.
The tank end was a bit more problematic.
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
![Image](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7826218/Forum%20attachments/Photo%2006-07-2013%2008%2002%2001%20PM.jpg)
On the other hand the spigot on the tank itself was quite a lot smaller, the 12.7mm hose did fit but it could have been tighter. 13mm would have been too loose. I was tempted to try some of Paul's suggestion of some PTFE tape to build up the diameter of the spigot on the tank but I didn't have any to hand.
Another thing I noticed while doing this is that there is a tiny hairline crack right along the length of the plastic on the spigot on the hose.
![d'oh! #-o](./images/smilies/eusa_doh.gif)
After getting it back together and getting the pump primed etc I did 2-3 rounds of citrerobics. It was at this point that I noticed (or at least confirmed my suspicion) that my front height corrector linkage is indeed sticky - a couple of times when the car was completely lowered if I then raised the manual height lever to full height the front stayed down while the back lifted...
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
Although the ride height at the front is correct when tested under static conditions I've been suspicious for quite a while that the ride height is intermittently incorrect while driving (usually too high) so confirmation of a sticking height corrector linkage would seem to indicate that some of the poor ride quality I've seen recently is due to poor regulation of the ride height under dynamic conditions.
Anyway I took it for a drive and although the ride is still quite firm (the spheres are definitely down on gas quite a bit) 80% of the harshness was gone right away.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Over the last week the car has been driven normally with no further citrerobics and the ride has continued to improve to the point where there is no longer any harshness - improving without citrerobics sessions is a good sign IMO that the air leak problems have been solved, as the small amount of self bleeding when the suspension goes down each night (mine does drop a couple of inches over night) is enough to gradually flush out any remaining bubbles. If there was any significant air leakage it would gradually get worse with normal use, not better.
So I'm satisfied that despite the slightly suspicious hairline fracture I found and the hose not being an ideal fit at the tank end, that the air leaks have been solved for now. At some point in the future I may pull the hose off the tank and wrap the tank spigot with some PTFE tape as Paul did to get a slightly better fit - but that's easy to do.
Now that the harshness is gone what still remains is that the struts spheres are indeed fairly low on pressure but not dangerously low - the ride is firmer than it should be but not harsh. It's also very clear that the front ride height is sometimes jacking itself up a bit causing the ride to become "fidgety" and rock slightly side to side on uneven bumps - if I push the height control forward for a couple of seconds so the front drops slightly the fidgetyness goes away immediately.
So in the summer I'm going to have to get both height corrector linkages out (the rear one is sticky too and doesn't regulate the height as accurately as it should) and clean/lubricate them properly. Joy!
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
![Pray [-o<](./images/smilies/eusa_pray.gif)
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
The shortcut below shows a few diagrams of various clips / clamps. Some of them I'd have thought would be better than a jubilee clip?
http://www.croberts.com/hose.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.croberts.com/hose.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Currently driving Citroen c5 2.0 HDI 51 Plate
Re: Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
The problem was not the hose clamps, the problem was the type of hydraulic hose used in the previous repair was not entirely suitable. The wall thickness was too great and the hose too stiff. No matter how tight the clamps were it wasn't sealing air tight.
The new hose is a thinner wall thickness equal to the original Citroen hose, making it more pliable and easy to mould to the spigots. So far the repair is a success.![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
The new hose is a thinner wall thickness equal to the original Citroen hose, making it more pliable and easy to mould to the spigots. So far the repair is a success.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Re: Less than 2 years from new spheres ?
I know its an old post put how long did your Eurorepar spheres last on your Xantia?hattershaun wrote: ↑10 Dec 2013, 23:02 Citroen have a second tier parts brand called 'Eurorepar', aimed at older cars and at lower prices.
The retail price of spheres are £61.58 including VAT each, compared to the original genuine Citroen ones at £100+.
They are listed on Citroen Service, but you'll need to search without a VIN number, select Xantia 2, then to narrow down the search select 'saloon' and ESJ9 engine.
The Eurorepar spheres all start with part number V587 then 3 digits. E.g. Main accumulator is V587001
In the description in says 'NOK' Multi-layer membrane. Also the descriptions for some say of the spheres say either 'Desmopan' or 'Urepan, which I think refers to the membrane material. I believe the Desmopan spheres are the latest Multi layer membrane types.
Last week I bought a set of Eurorepar spheres for a friend's xantia V6, they've yet to be fitted. Despite having Eurorepar labels on the boxes the spheres themselves look identical to the genuine Citroen ones, symbols, size, shape, colour (they have all been painted grey for many years now). Knowing that Citroen manufacture spheres themselves I suspect the Eurorepar ones are identical to the genuine ones, but I don't know this for sure.
In the past I've only ever fitted genuine Citroën spheres, but from now on I think I'll be using these.
Xantia Estate 1999 2.0 HDI 110
C5 2005 2.0 HDI 138
Nissan Leaf 2018 40Kwh
C5 2005 2.0 HDI 138
Nissan Leaf 2018 40Kwh