DPF Removal

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addo
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Post by addo »

Liked.
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Re: DPF Removal

Post by Mandrake »

wheeler wrote: Couldn't agree with all that more. If you have ever done a forced regen on a car you will know how bad this is, you can practically see the fuel gauge dropping as it does it, all the emissions you have prevented in the last thousand miles has just gone out the window when you either have to force a regen or blast it down the motorway.
Sorry, I don't buy this at all wheeler. Without facts and figures to back it up its just hyperbole.

A 10-15 minute regeneration or blast down the motorway releases more emissions than those prevented by the DPF over a 6 month period of driving ? Fat chance! :wink:

Six months worth of particulate soot released in 10 minutes would choke anyone in a 5 metre radius to death. :lol:

The regeneration process combusts the soot particles into far less harmful byproducts - its not like its simply releasing 6 months worth of stored soot particles out into the atmosphere as is.

The DPF only deals with soot too remember, its the job of the CAT to deal with the other emissions, including those occurring during the regeneration process, which in no way will meet six months worth of non-DPF emissions. A DPF is still a massive net win in emissions reduction, as is a CAT.

I'm sure lots of people complained bitterly when residential coal burning fires were phased out in the UK too, (fortunately I was not living in the UK in those days) but would you really want to go back to every house in the UK burning coal and the massive amount of pollution that was present at the time ?

I'm not just thinking about air quality in general averaged across the country either, (smog etc) I'm thinking of air quality in the immediate vicinity of a running car - eg in and around your own garage and house, and coming into your air vents from the car directly in front of you on the road.

One need look no further than the developing world where CAT's are not required by law (or aren't enforced) let alone DPF's, and the amount of visible pollution pouring out of every tail pipe is astounding and the smog and pollution is way out of control.

On a visit to Marakesh last year where there are masses of 2 stroke (?) mopeds driving everywhere the fumes in the street were nauseating and offensive to the point where I felt sick. Fortunately I was only there a few days, I couldn't imagine breathing that stuff day in day out for years.

DPF's are expensive and a pain the ass to replace and maintain, but they do work, so until someone invents something better that's what we have. (or drive a petrol if you only do lots of short trips!)
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Re: DPF Removal

Post by Bob L'eponge »

wheeler wrote:Have you had to do any repairs or maintinence on the DPF system yet on your X7 C5 ?
I have just replenished the additive fluid at 85,0000 miles, but it seems probably didn't need to. The latest versions of these FAP systems have much longer service lives than previously and use much less additive.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=46731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: DPF Removal

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Lighty wrote:It's all very well driving around with a DPF & and an imaginary halo over your head, simple facts of the matter are that they do not work in this country, with our traffic conditions and flippant vehicle use.
I agree that much car use in the UK is 'flippant' what with it seen to be normal to take the car even for a 200m trip to the paper shop, but are you sure that you are not confusing the efficiency of catalytic converters (which work best when hot) with FAP's (which are designed to contain particulate matter, especially that produced by something such as a cold start or flooring the accelerator).
Lighty wrote: there are plenty of worse pollutants than the cars driving around Europe, guess it's ok so long as the sky above us is ok.
But are those pollutants being pumped into the air that we all have to breathe? I currently live next to a relatively quiet road through a village and if I have a window open can tell when a vehicle comes past that does not have a FAP fitted because of the particulates that come into the room! Why on Earth should anyone be allowed to impose this sort of pollution on everyone they drive past just because they want to save a few hundred quid on servicing their FAP system every 100,000 miles or so?
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Re: DPF Removal

Post by bobins »

What's 'greener' in the end -
Scrapping an otherwise healthy car because it's failed its MOT due to no DPF and the owner can't afford to replace it,
Or driving around a car with its DPF removed ?
Undoubtedly no straight answer to that one :?

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Re: DPF Removal

Post by Mandrake »

bobins wrote:What's 'greener' in the end -
Scrapping an otherwise healthy car because it's failed its MOT due to no DPF and the owner can't afford to replace it,
Or driving around a car with its DPF removed ?
Undoubtedly no straight answer to that one :?
You can blame the ridiculously low resale / replacement value of second hand cars in the UK for that. Old cars here are worth nothing, so a throwaway mentality pervades. One thing breaks, throw the car away and replace it because its cheaper.

The same argument could be used for a replacement CAT, a replacement BSI, replacement engine ECU (or any other non trivial ECU) a replacement Hydraulic pump, a replacement gearbox (for an automatic) all of which cost far more than a car is "worth" by the time they fail - but largely because the second hand value of the car is lower than it should be.

I say this from the perspective of someone from New Zealand - where cars hold a MUCH higher second hand value, but conversely are far cheaper to run. (much lower petrol/diesel costs, cheaper and non-mandatory insurance, lower MOT/tax costs)

In 2005 I paid $7000 NZ for a more or less mint condition 1997 Xantia 2.0i Auto VSX which had done about 80k miles - equivalent then to about £2800, at the time in the UK the same car would be lucky to fetch £1000. I sold it in 2009 in quite good but not mint condition, about 105k miles for $3000, which I felt was a bit on the low side, but thanks to exchange rate changes still about £1400. In 2009 the same Xantia in the UK would be lucky to get £500 no matter how good the condition or how low the mileage.

When cars hold their second hand value at more realistic levels its more economic to repair them. Modern cars contain a LOT of items that are very expensive and likely to write off the car when they finally fail due to unrealistically low resale/replacement value, the DPF is but one of them. :(
Simon

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Re: DPF Removal

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Mandrake wrote:Old cars here are worth nothing, so a throwaway mentality pervades. One thing breaks, throw the car away and replace it because its cheaper.
Exactly so! The underlying problem is that in the UK people tend to see cars as status symbols, and the newer the model the better, which is why there used to be that ridiculous rush for the new plates each year. Brits also tend to be complete slaves to the badge on the bonnet, so cars without the 'right' badge are devalued even more.

Here in France most people see cars as functional appliances, so see no shame in running a 10 year old car, in fact it shows a bit of financial savvy. Same with badges, with brands like Dacia selling very well. In turn this means that second hand values are at least double those for an equivalent car in the UK and it makes economic sense to repair an older vehicle.
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