Non-starting 2005 petrol C5 - Help!

[triumphtoledo]

Hi all,
I hope that I can pick your brains, about why my wife’s 2005, petrol C5 II estate fails to start. It’s a 2.0litre VTR, with the EW10a engine, so not the earlier HPi version.

A few weeks ago, the engine management light came on and the car misfired briefly. The problem since went away. I hooked the car up to my Lexia, which revealed that the coil pack was open circuit (can’t recall which one but they are all within one large unit). I erased the code and tested the coils individually – no short circuit came up. How odd.

Last weekend, she drove to a shopping centre and returned to the car some 5 hours later. It would not start – the engine turned over but would not catch. The breakdown people diagnosed no fuel pressure and the C5 was returned to me on the back of a low-loader.

Once hooked up to Lexia, a load of faults came up, including the coil pack and fuel pump. Once the codes were reset, I took the coil pack off and found evidence of tracking, so a new Valeo one has been installed. A new fuel pump was fitted at the same time, both jobs had no effect. The car still will not start.

The faults that keep reappearing are all coils going open circuit (on the new part as well as the old one), as are all 4 fuel injectors and the VVT motor, plus the canister purge valve solenoid has an intermittent circuit. When tested, the fuel pump relay test is successful but the new pump still cannot be heard running.

Interestingly, when diagnosing the “engine relay” on the Lexia (I am not sure what the engine relay is – it is the ECU or the fuse box in the engine bay??), it comes up with a petrol pump supply permanent error but it says I cannot erase it, without going into the BSI menu. I enter the BSI menu, which says there is no fault, go to “erase faults”, and it says “faults remaining” but in the previous screen, it says ‘no faults’. Weird.

I have also checked that the immobiliser is not locking the engine, which it is not. I cannot find a physical crash reset button and have been through the airbag ECU, which confirms that the car does not think it has been in a bump.

So, a petrol C5 with neither spark nor fuel pressure and a host of other faults that I think are too much of a co-incidence to all happen together.

Any ideas as to what should be tried next?

Many thanks,

R

[VertVega]

This is exactly the same engine as in mine. I will definitely follow the answers.

You can try this:
- Turn the key, ignition on but don't start
- Wait about 10 s
- Start the car

If it doesn't start:
- same steps as above but this time use gas pedal

[triumphtoledo]

Thanks Vert. Just tried that on your suggestion. No good I'm afraid.

I also forgot to mention that the otehr fault is one of the Oxgyen sensor's heating circuit has gone open circuit too...

R

[VertVega]

A quick check list which comes to my mind at first:
* Battery terminals clean?
* Ignition coil electric plug connected?
* Start brushes reaching/reached min length? (this is difficult to test)
* Fuel in tank? (You have new fuel pump so we assume it's healthy)
* Fuel pump fuse OK (Engine bay fuse F5, 15A)?

In my car's service history, there was a marking about the replacement of engine temperature sensor due to engine stalling. This was written there and I never had similar problems during my ownership.

Also a tip: Search similar cases from Peugeot 307, 407 petrol engines. They have the same system (problems) as Citroen.

[triumphtoledo]

Thanks, Vert, for your lightening response. To answer you points, with gratitude, by the way...

* Battery terminals clean? - Yes
* Ignition coil electric plug connected? - Yes - new coil fitted.
* Start brushes reaching/reached min length? (this is difficult to test) - Not sure what you mean? If you are talking about the starter motor, it's turning OK.
* Fuel in tank? ou have new fuel pump so we assume it's healthy) - Yes, when I replaced the pump, I could see that there was lots in the tank, which is verified by the gauge reading 3/4
* Fuel pump fuse OK (Engine bay fuse F5, 15A)? - All fuses checked, including that one - all OK.

In my car's service history, there was a marking about the replacement of engine temperature sensor due to engine stalling. This was written there and I never had similar problems during my ownership.
Interesting stuff. Yet, my wife's car (also an estate), is not even attempting to fire.

Also a tip: Search similar cases from Peugeot 307, 407 petrol engines. They have the same system (problems) as Citroen.

Thanks. I have a further idea about what it could be but I hope that a more knowledgable Cit fan would raise it first

R

[wheeler]

Sounds to me like a 'double' relay fault to me, this is the combined fuel pump & main engine relay. It powers the fuel pump & supplies power to the coil & fuel injectors + various other sensors/actuators. The only problem is on the C5 this is an integral part of the under bonnet fuse box (also known as the BSM unit)

[triumphtoledo]

Thanks "Wheeler", that's what the problem was. I bow down in awe and gratitude.

The fusebox, under the bonnet, had failed internally. A new one £120 ish + VAT, fixed the problem.

She's on the road again!

R