xantia TD one time fail to start

[aerodynamica]

Yesterday lunch time the TD wouldn't start for a minute of cranking and plugs - it final ran and drove fine

It starts instantly from cold and any other time with recent plugs, fuel filter, coolant, timing belt etc

Could be looking a. The start of a failure?

[taffy]

was the engine hot when it wouldnt start?

[Xantidote]

Next time it takes longer to start than you expect, and doesn't fire up, easy enough to raise bonnet, and give the fuel pressure bulb a few squeezes. With your TD getting on a bit , maybe you're now getting a bit of air in the inlet system, so it takes longer to prime?

I've noticed a deterioration in the flexibility of the rubber fuel lines on my TD which is a year newer than yours, and this year I had to replace part of the hose between the bulb and the fuel filter. It had developed a small split at a sharp bend just above the alternator (=air in when engine off, and fuel squirting out when engine running!). Another option, if it's air, is the short small diameter fuel return lines from the injectors.

[taffy]

i was thinking air...make sure ur giving her plenty of glow plug heat thou as its a major aid to starting the 1.9s

[aerodynamica]

Cheers guys it started on the button this lunch time so it's one of those horrible intermittent problems...

More history: 2 winters back I was getting the old ' air in diesel' fault with it starting ok but then chucking it a mile down the road. It e was the fuel filter Housing leaking at the white plastic plug low down at the back. Eventually I bypassed it and fired a clear in line filter. I replaced the priming bulb at the same time and it starts instantly hot or cold with plugs every time.

The plugs are about 2 years old too but the resistance of each check out at about 8 ohms. There's never any smoke on start up ( unlike when I first got it! )

So maybe there was a bubble in the fuel pump? Could be the fuel line as it's the one thing not changed.

[Xantidote]

The plugs are about 2 years old too but the resistance of each check out at about 8 ohms.

8 ohms is a very odd value. They should be of the order of 1/2 - 3/4 ohms. If they're working & producing a nice glow at the tip, then maybe your multimeter is not too accurate. I've only ever had 1 glowplug with that sort of resistance and as soon as it was discovered, it was replaced.

[aerodynamica]

Haha sorry I meant 8 v read across the set which I think it's about right? But anyway I'm certain it's not the plugs because it starts on the button with no smoke. There was no grey smoke the time it took some cranking to start so instinct says it was getting no fuel for a wee bit.
Has been fine since Monday's hiccup but will see how it goes this morning!

[Xantidote]

8 volts? Ah, right. Presumably that's 8 volts at the glowplugs with engine is cranking? When I'm checking my glowplugs, I expect 10+ volts when the glowplugs circuit energised, but with no engine cranking.

Your '94 TD, along with my '95 TD, are blessed with virtually no technology so hopefully not too difficult to track down if the car throws another wobbler.

[aerodynamica]

That's right and in all honesty I appreciate the ' low tech' aspect of it.

Started on the button again this morning

Occasionally the glow plug lamp doesn't light though the plugs do energise

[Xantidote]

Occasionally the glow plug lamp doesn't light though the plugs do energise

Hmmm - that's a bit odd. Don't recall anything on the Forum about the glowplugs control unit being unreliable (n/s front wing - have to remove battery to get at it), but I did have to remove the cover of the similar control unit on a BX DTR which had done about 200k. It was still working, but it needed the points inside cleaning up, and I may have adjusted the points gap.

Another usually quite reliable unit is the fuel shut-off valve on the Bosch fuel injection pump.

Battery leads all OK?

Until the car hiccups again, you've got an unknown & intermittent problem, and they're the most difficult to fix.

[aerodynamica]

Yes, I have recently replaced the positive battery lead (though there were no known problems with the old one)

It might simply be the bulb holder for the glow plug light as it really only started doing that after i had the instruments out to replace the bulbs for the speedometer and fuel gauge.

It is still starting and running well. It generally starts on one half of a engine crank from hot and about two cranks starting from cold in the morning though sometimes even one crank starts it. It has been as readily startable since the fuel filter bypass.

I was beginning to fear the stop solenoid was not happy because the one observation I spotted after it was hard to start the one time, was that the in line fuel filter was completely full whereas it usually has a visible air gap at the top. It was as though fuel was getting through but not going anywhere.

Also, the leak off pipes were all renewed a year ago too.

O well, the on going insecurity continues..

[aerodynamica]

Uh oh! It happened again... This time it was first start this morning. Same as before it's as though the diesel pump goes empty after a long wait. The priming bulb worked to, well prime it..

If it's the fuel line why wouldn't it start on the diesel pump contents?

[Xantidote]

intermittent problems have a habit of coming back - Need to tell us more. Presumably you got it going in the end, and weather's not too cold at present.

How long since car last started up? Car parked up/downhill and in different orientation to usual parking? When you squeezed the bulb, did it go firm after 2-3 squeezes, or many more squeezes, in which case you were having to reprime the system. Still wondering if there's air getting into the fuel system. Any idea how long or number of spins of starter before it fired up? Was it very lumpy with lots of smoke from exhaust?

Or, maybe you've an intermittent fault causing the glowplugs not to operate. Mine can be a swine to start if 2 glowplugs have failed, though it will start after much starter churning.

Did mention fuel shut-off valve earlier in thread, but usually reliable - try unplugging and reconnecting the 2-way electrical plug at the fuel shut-off, a couple of times, in case there's bit of corrosion on the connectors.

I assume when it's running, it's developing full power when foot to floor, suggesting the fuel filter's not blocked

PS. In answer to your question, air in fuel system can allow fuel to run back to tank. Whether this happens would, I suspect, depend on exactly where the air leak is located

Good luck

[Xaccers]

Uh oh! It happened again... This time it was first start this morning. Same as before it's as though the diesel pump goes empty after a long wait. The priming bulb worked to, well prime it..

If it's the fuel line why wouldn't it start on the diesel pump contents?

The fuel tank is lower, especially if you park with the nose even slightly uphill, so if there's an air leak, the fuel drains back to the tank emptying the pump.
Replace your leak off pipes.

[aerodynamica]

Cheers guys well the leakOff pipes were replaced new about 18 months ago and the glow plugs art that time. No smoke art all and not lumpy when it does fire up. Full power available too. When I first got the car 2 years back I had problems with air coming in at the filter Housing so I eventually replaced the fuel line and bypassed the filter and fitted an in line filter that I change every few months. It's a clear filter so you can see the diesel flow

It is used daily and starts after one turn of the starter usually. This time it was a good minute of cranking in total then boom it starts.

Parked as usual on near totally level ground save for the camber of the kerbside road.

Priming bulb is about a year old and went firm (iirc) after about 7-6 squeezes that might be wrong though as I didn't really payfull attention to it this time.

Think that's all, only other detail is that the shut off solenoid was rewired by the previous keeper and was taken off the aABS relay (unwise) as it cut out if the ABS light came on (!) so I rewired it to power off a switched connection behind the battery.