Xantia clutch replacement by dropping end of engine down?

[Old-Guy]

i dont think you have to buy Total gear oil in particular,
as long as it states on the container it is suitable for PSA gear box's it should be fine,

I beg to differ. The Total oil was developed specifically for this gearbox. Over the years there have been a number of discussions on the subject, members with extensive experience of the BE 'box say that using either Total (and one other make) is essential for a smooth gearchange and a long life for the synchro-cones (it's a rather dated design).

My own experience is that using a reputable alternative of the correct spec. (can't remember which brand) to top up (the diff seals drip slightly) has not done the Green Lady's 'box any favours: it now whines slightly and the gearchange isn't as smooth as it once was. Part of the resurrection program (when I get a chance to start it ) involves suctioning as much oil as I can out of the 'box, refilling with Total, then doing a conventional drain and refill after just enough miles to get the box thoroughly warm.

[romie]

i dont think you have to buy Total gear oil in particular,
as long as it states on the container it is suitable for PSA gear box's it should be fine,

I beg to differ. The Total oil was developed specifically for this gearbox. Over the years there have been a number of discussions on the subject, members with extensive experience of the BE 'box say that using either Total (and one other make) is essential for a smooth gearchange and a long life for the synchro-cones (it's a rather dated design).

My own experience is that using a reputable alternative of the correct spec. (can't remember which brand) to top up (the diff seals drip slightly) has not done the Green Lady's 'box any favours: it now whines slightly and the gearchange isn't as smooth as it once was. Part of the resurrection program (when I get a chance to start it ) involves suctioning as much oil as I can out of the 'box, refilling with Total, then doing a conventional drain and refill after just enough miles to get the box thoroughly warm.

I've already ordered the Total stuff as was the least expensive on ebay and it will be delivered direct to my desk at work :p
Dunno where'd I'd pick that 75W80 BV elsewhere? Unipart?

[romie]

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGG!

So the clutch has just arrived from cp4less.
I ordered a Valeo.
I paid the premium price for a Valeo.
I have a receipt for a Valeo.
The invoice that came with the package says Valeo.
What is it?
.
.
A sodding Sachs.

ugh.

[romie]

.. I should think myself lucky it's a clutch eh! :/
.. on the phone we go...

[RichardW]

re the pin.... it's right on top of the gearbox, so you can have a go at it any time. Ease the spring clip off, and then get some mole grips on it, and see if it will move / start to slide out. At least you will know what you are in for then. New fork assembly £65 from Citroen if required.

Don't know how easy it will be to change the inlet guide tube / nylon bushes with the box still 'in' the car - but then dropping it out without the assistance of an overhead lift of some sort (engine crane or chain hoist etc) will be pretty tricky - Haynes makes it sound easy (Slide the gearbox to the right, then drop it out, twisting it clear the subframe - ha ha ha!!!), but it's hard enough with on overhead lift (I've done a ZX TD with this box, using a chain hoist - mind you, that was a walk in the park compared to a C5 2.0 HDi 16V we did later on, which was ).

[flying clutchman]

Don't bother trying not to take the gearbox fully out, it's more trouble than it's worth. I don't really have a problem lifting the be3/4 gearbox up, it's a lot lighter than many nowdays. You shouldn't need to change the guide tube on the pull-type clutches as the bearing is actually fitted into the cover and doesn't really contact the tube to any extent. To lift the gearbox up roll it onto your chest so that the lifting comes from your body not your arms. I can still manage these ok although I have lost about 50% of my strength in the last 10 years, although I am now 62 so I suppose that's to be expected. The best thing to try and get the pin out is as follows: Leverthe clip off of the pin. Get a good pair of long-nose mole grips tightened on the pin (longways so that the grips are flat pointing towards the radiator.) Then using a large screwdriver lever against the grips and the arm to gently pull the pin out. (in theory!)

[myglaren]

I've already ordered the Total stuff as was the least expensive on ebay and it will be delivered direct to my desk at work :p
Dunno where'd I'd pick that 75W80 BV elsewhere? Unipart?

It is generally quite reasonable at the dealer. I have bought from there and didn't find the price much different from anywhere else.

[romie]

Damn, ecp4less. This looks like it's going to be a while before they sort the problem they made out

re the pin.... it's right on top of the gearbox...

Good idea.. but had a quick look. Under the air box there's a black plastic cable tray on top of the gearbox. I presume that pin is under there as the clutch actuator arm sneaks off under the tray.
So it seems that it's going to be a bit of a job to move all the cables and that tray. Something for when I don't need to have to put it all back together for a while.
Probably a Sat morning thing

[romie]

Don't bother trying not to take the gearbox fully out, it's more trouble than it's worth. I don't really have a problem lifting the be3/4 gearbox up, it's a lot lighter than many nowdays. You shouldn't need to change the guide tube on the pull-type clutches as the bearing is actually fitted into the cover and doesn't really contact the tube to any extent. To lift the gearbox up roll it onto your chest so that the lifting comes from your body not your arms. I can still manage these ok although I have lost about 50% of my strength in the last 10 years, although I am now 62 so I suppose that's to be expected. The best thing to try and get the pin out is as follows: Leverthe clip off of the pin. Get a good pair of long-nose mole grips tightened on the pin (longways so that the grips are flat pointing towards the radiator.) Then using a large screwdriver lever against the grips and the arm to gently pull the pin out. (in theory!)

ahhh, voice from painful mucky experience I'll be re-reading this when just about to do the job. Sounds like a very thorough walk though!! Many thanks

Yes I saw that the bearing was fitted to the cover on the wrongly sent Sachs unit, the bearing had a plastic cover over the side that I though would be pressing on stuff. Should that plastic cover be pulled off? :/

And grips levered with screwdriver... yes, that would offer best force in the right place. Probably have a go at that on the weekend.

Many thanks for the detail flying clutchman!

romie

[romie]

.... grrr cp4less. Wesley really was not very helpful. Seemed like he didn't care at all, (the spotty oik).
Tesh on the other hand was very helpful and actually tried a few things, unfortunately he was off sick today >:(

Grumble over.

[citronut]

Yes I saw that the bearing was fitted to the cover on the wrongly sent Sachs unit, the bearing had a plastic cover over the side that I though would be pressing on stuff. Should that plastic cover be pulled off? :/

And grips levered with screwdriver... yes, that would offer best force in the right place. Probably have a go at that on the weekend.
romie

no dont go removing bits of the new thrust bearing,
if you look at it there are two fork prong entry points on the bearing,
on offering to box back up to the engine and at the point you can still get you hand to the thrust bearing, make sure both entry pints are facing forward, and the fork prongs are almost but not quite pointing towards flywheel,
then as the box mates up the for prongs enter the two entry points of the bearing,

[romie]

Yes I saw that the bearing was fitted to the cover on the wrongly sent Sachs unit, the bearing had a plastic cover over the side that I though would be pressing on stuff. Should that plastic cover be pulled off? :/

And grips levered with screwdriver... yes, that would offer best force in the right place. Probably have a go at that on the weekend.
romie

no dont go removing bits of the new thrust bearing,
if you look at it there are two fork prong entry points on the bearing,
on offering to box back up to the engine and at the point you can still get you hand to the thrust bearing, make sure both entry pints are facing forward, and the fork prongs are almost but not quite pointing towards flywheel,
then as the box mates up the for prongs enter the two entry points of the bearing,

Thanks
(Apologies for grammar of my last rushed message).
Pull clutches.. interesting. I'll have to find a youtube animation of that.
That Sachs clutch did have a nice sintered copper look to the friction material.
Think I'm just waiting for the clutch now.

Oh, do I need to disconnect the exhaust before undoing all the engine mounts and lowering the gearbox end of engine, (and after removing both drive shafts)?

(reckon I'm going to soak myself for a few hours in barrier cream before doing this)

[flying clutchman]

No need to undo the exhaust. The worst bit is getting off the stupid plastic cover that has all the pipes and cables clipped to it.

[citronut]

The worst bit is getting off the stupid plastic cover that has all the pipes and cables clipped to it.

i second that Mr clutchman

[romie]

No need to undo the exhaust. The worst bit is getting off the stupid plastic cover that has all the pipes and cables clipped to it.

The 'stupid plastic cover' that I mentioned a few posts ago that's covering the clutch fork lever pin?

Good idea.. but had a quick look. Under the air box there's a black plastic cable tray on top of the gearbox. I presume that pin is under there as the clutch actuator arm sneaks off under the tray.
So it seems that it's going to be a bit of a job to move all the cables and that tray. Something for when I don't need to have to put it all back together for a while.
Probably a Sat morning thing.