Could anybody tell me what sort of gearbox oil my Xantia TD should have?
I've read the manual, and although it specifies a specific oil it doesn't give the specification of the oil required.
Does anybody know what spec of oil is required?
I'm thinking a generic API-GL4 75/80W oil is required. Can I replace API-GL4 fluid with API-GL5?
Gear oil
Moderator: RichardW
Further to this, what is the recommended interval for gearbox oil changes?
My AX has done 89k miles since I last changed it - I'm certain it must be well overdue although it's still silent and smooth.
My new Xantia is a little noisy (I think - but it may be tyre noise) so I'd like to change it soonish.
I added Slick50 to the AX gearbox oil and it seemed to help quiet it down and make things smoother straight away - does anybody have any views on this subject?
My AX has done 89k miles since I last changed it - I'm certain it must be well overdue although it's still silent and smooth.
My new Xantia is a little noisy (I think - but it may be tyre noise) so I'd like to change it soonish.
I added Slick50 to the AX gearbox oil and it seemed to help quiet it down and make things smoother straight away - does anybody have any views on this subject?
GL5 isn't a replacement for GL4. It contains sulphur compounds that attack any brass components in the gearbox if the box isn't degigned for GL5. Having said that, I've not looked inside a Xantia gearbox so don't know if it's GL5 compatible.
I got the proper BV stuff from GSF for £2.99 / litre for my ZX when I changed the oil after I got the car. Gave a much better change than the (fairly new) generic oil that was already in there.
Hardly worth experimenting when the proper stuff is that cheap.
I got the proper BV stuff from GSF for £2.99 / litre for my ZX when I changed the oil after I got the car. Gave a much better change than the (fairly new) generic oil that was already in there.
Hardly worth experimenting when the proper stuff is that cheap.
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Kowalski
- Posts: 2557
- Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 17:41
- Location: North East, United Kingdom
- My Cars: Ex 05 C5 2.0 HDI Exclusive 145k
Ex 97 Xantia 1.9TD SX 144k
Ex 94 Xantia Dimension 1.9TD 199k
Xantia World recommends "Shell SF 5288 75/80W gear oil"
http://www.kolumbus.fi/anttijp/technica3.htm
Apparently this meets "API GL-4" and "PSA Standard B71 2315" (Found via a Dutch Shell site).
I'd probably just buy the proper oil from GSF, except that I can't find it on the website and they don't have a branch local to me (Newcastle).
http://www.kolumbus.fi/anttijp/technica3.htm
Apparently this meets "API GL-4" and "PSA Standard B71 2315" (Found via a Dutch Shell site).
I'd probably just buy the proper oil from GSF, except that I can't find it on the website and they don't have a branch local to me (Newcastle).
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Jon
Ok, the correct oil is "Total Transmission BV New Formula" and yes GSF do of course sell it.
Its not on the webshop right now as at the time we wrote the shop database, the carriers that GSF Heathrow were using would not accept any "fluids". So we left all fluids out of the Shop database.
Good news is that Target will accept LHM, Oils and even batteries, and they are going to be collecting from GSF Heathrow every day as from November. When this is in place I will of course update the Shop DB to incude all the Oils and Fluids.
Transmission BV and all the other fluids should however be available from the majority of GSF branches.
[xx(]
Its not on the webshop right now as at the time we wrote the shop database, the carriers that GSF Heathrow were using would not accept any "fluids". So we left all fluids out of the Shop database.
Good news is that Target will accept LHM, Oils and even batteries, and they are going to be collecting from GSF Heathrow every day as from November. When this is in place I will of course update the Shop DB to incude all the Oils and Fluids.
Transmission BV and all the other fluids should however be available from the majority of GSF branches.
[xx(]
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Kowalski
- Posts: 2557
- Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 17:41
- Location: North East, United Kingdom
- My Cars: Ex 05 C5 2.0 HDI Exclusive 145k
Ex 97 Xantia 1.9TD SX 144k
Ex 94 Xantia Dimension 1.9TD 199k
I made the mistake of not reading the correct owners handbook, I read the one for my old Xantia. The new one suggests "Citroen Fluid Reference 9736 40 : 2 Litres" or " "Total Transmission BV New Formula". It also states that API-GL5 is required so maybe some substitution can happen, although I would prefer the original oil if it is in fact available locally at the right price. I suspect that the genuine Citroen fluid may be expensive especially if it comes from a main dealer.
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cheesesliceking
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by davek-uk</i>
Further to this, what is the recommended interval for gearbox oil changes?
My AX has done 89k miles since I last changed it - I'm certain it must be well overdue although it's still silent and smooth.
My new Xantia is a little noisy (I think - but it may be tyre noise) so I'd like to change it soonish.
I added Slick50 to the AX gearbox oil and it seemed to help quiet it down and make things smoother straight away - does anybody have any views on this subject?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You have an AX & it has a smooth Shift!!
No fair!
tell me how i get that on my ax! pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease[:D]
Further to this, what is the recommended interval for gearbox oil changes?
My AX has done 89k miles since I last changed it - I'm certain it must be well overdue although it's still silent and smooth.
My new Xantia is a little noisy (I think - but it may be tyre noise) so I'd like to change it soonish.
I added Slick50 to the AX gearbox oil and it seemed to help quiet it down and make things smoother straight away - does anybody have any views on this subject?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You have an AX & it has a smooth Shift!!
No fair!
tell me how i get that on my ax! pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease[:D]
-
Kowalski
- Posts: 2557
- Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 17:41
- Location: North East, United Kingdom
- My Cars: Ex 05 C5 2.0 HDI Exclusive 145k
Ex 97 Xantia 1.9TD SX 144k
Ex 94 Xantia Dimension 1.9TD 199k
I've changed my gear oil now, got some BV from the local Citroen dealer. It seems to be referred to as BV by people in the know, does anybody know what BV stands for?
Anyway, initial impressions are that my gear box is now a lot smoother, goes into all gears smoothly without fuss, it was occasionally a bit notchy into third, but it has stopped doing that now.
The old (6 years / 56k miles) oil was a darker brown than the new oil (which was very pale) but was clean. Once it mixed with the remains of the diesel engine oil in the container I was using to catch the oil it went pretty black, just goes to show a little bit of soot goes a long way...
Transmission oil is horrible stinky stuff, worse than diesel.
Anyway, initial impressions are that my gear box is now a lot smoother, goes into all gears smoothly without fuss, it was occasionally a bit notchy into third, but it has stopped doing that now.
The old (6 years / 56k miles) oil was a darker brown than the new oil (which was very pale) but was clean. Once it mixed with the remains of the diesel engine oil in the container I was using to catch the oil it went pretty black, just goes to show a little bit of soot goes a long way...
Transmission oil is horrible stinky stuff, worse than diesel.
I really can't tell cheesesliceking - not that's it a trade secret but because I've never done anything with the linkage in the 90k/3+ years I've had it. As I said, Slick50 and new gearbox oil improved the gearbox loads.
What didn't improve things was a recent visit to KwikFit for an exhaust blowing around one of their previous repairs.
The first chap, who dashed off to drive it on the ramps, came back quickly - at over 6 foot he couldn't fit into the drivers seat! The second kept stalling it and I could tell he had third gear instead of first, anyway he drove it onto the ramps and they fixed the leak.
When they went to drive the car off the gear linkage was loose and when they raised it up on the ramps one of the rods was hanging off. They tried blaming that on me suggesting that oil/grease/road-muck had clogged the ball joint and it had rotted – “just a coincidence that it should fall apart now”. The guy who drove it onto the ramps said the gear leaver was loose. When I insisted they look at it properly, they found a bent rod; straightened it and everything clicked back into place. They must have bent the rod trying to slam it into first gear...
I hate 'grease monkeys' (no disrespect to proper mechanics) getting anywhere near my cars. When I drove a 2.8 Capri they treated it with some reverence - but now...
What didn't improve things was a recent visit to KwikFit for an exhaust blowing around one of their previous repairs.
The first chap, who dashed off to drive it on the ramps, came back quickly - at over 6 foot he couldn't fit into the drivers seat! The second kept stalling it and I could tell he had third gear instead of first, anyway he drove it onto the ramps and they fixed the leak.
When they went to drive the car off the gear linkage was loose and when they raised it up on the ramps one of the rods was hanging off. They tried blaming that on me suggesting that oil/grease/road-muck had clogged the ball joint and it had rotted – “just a coincidence that it should fall apart now”. The guy who drove it onto the ramps said the gear leaver was loose. When I insisted they look at it properly, they found a bent rod; straightened it and everything clicked back into place. They must have bent the rod trying to slam it into first gear...
I hate 'grease monkeys' (no disrespect to proper mechanics) getting anywhere near my cars. When I drove a 2.8 Capri they treated it with some reverence - but now...
Some time ago Jon explained the BV designation - can't remember the exact gramma - but it's simply abbreviation for the french "manual gearbox" - no secrets in that.
I think that the "BV" gearoil designation has become some kind of a standard designation for the earlier grade gearoil with API spec GL-4 - to distinguish it from the later spec GL-5 - which should NOT be used in Citroen gearboxes, UNLESS the owners manual specifically mentions this.
The reason is that later type gearoils with API spec GL-5 contains some kinds of sulphur derivatives - which is aggressive to the brass made syncro rings in the gearbox of earlier designs.
It's the general story :
Car owners allways tend to use/buy the latest/highest spec oils for their cars - thinking the best goes for their cars.
This is encouraged by the aggressive adds seen all over by oil companies & dealers - because later type synthetic oils are more expensive - and dealers get higher earnings.
Ther's nothing wrong with later type synthetic ENGINE oils - they have better wear resistance than the former mineral ENGINE oils - and available in lower viscosity grades in favour of a cold starting engine. But despite these better spec's - these oils still can perform odd in some earlier engine types - which are designed & spec'ed to run with oil grades available at their time. Wellknown indications are sudden high oil consumption together with noticeable higher running noise from the engine.
Gearoils are a totally different story. These oils have to work in a fairly constant temperature range - no heat from combustion - and no debries from the combustion. They only have to withstand MECHANICAL wear. Usually they last as long as the average car - only replaced due to other service issues.
Again using later type higher spec'ed gearoils can have adverse effects - other than the aggressive mentioned above - it's known that the box suddenly becomes very hard to engage gears & will emit their own humming songs to joy up your ride.
There are ultimate grade gearbox oils around - which can make your old box a hot knife thru butter to engage - and absolutely soundless - provided your box has no wear/faults.
These oils are used for industrial machinery - not available thru any of the standard oil/parts dealers.
Don't be scared though - if you by finding these oil types - they are FROM approx £35 a liter [}:)] - and may have the most odd specification designations - impossible to tell if your box will take it.
I think that the "BV" gearoil designation has become some kind of a standard designation for the earlier grade gearoil with API spec GL-4 - to distinguish it from the later spec GL-5 - which should NOT be used in Citroen gearboxes, UNLESS the owners manual specifically mentions this.
The reason is that later type gearoils with API spec GL-5 contains some kinds of sulphur derivatives - which is aggressive to the brass made syncro rings in the gearbox of earlier designs.
It's the general story :
Car owners allways tend to use/buy the latest/highest spec oils for their cars - thinking the best goes for their cars.
This is encouraged by the aggressive adds seen all over by oil companies & dealers - because later type synthetic oils are more expensive - and dealers get higher earnings.
Ther's nothing wrong with later type synthetic ENGINE oils - they have better wear resistance than the former mineral ENGINE oils - and available in lower viscosity grades in favour of a cold starting engine. But despite these better spec's - these oils still can perform odd in some earlier engine types - which are designed & spec'ed to run with oil grades available at their time. Wellknown indications are sudden high oil consumption together with noticeable higher running noise from the engine.
Gearoils are a totally different story. These oils have to work in a fairly constant temperature range - no heat from combustion - and no debries from the combustion. They only have to withstand MECHANICAL wear. Usually they last as long as the average car - only replaced due to other service issues.
Again using later type higher spec'ed gearoils can have adverse effects - other than the aggressive mentioned above - it's known that the box suddenly becomes very hard to engage gears & will emit their own humming songs to joy up your ride.
There are ultimate grade gearbox oils around - which can make your old box a hot knife thru butter to engage - and absolutely soundless - provided your box has no wear/faults.
These oils are used for industrial machinery - not available thru any of the standard oil/parts dealers.
Don't be scared though - if you by finding these oil types - they are FROM approx £35 a liter [}:)] - and may have the most odd specification designations - impossible to tell if your box will take it.
-
Kowalski
- Posts: 2557
- Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 17:41
- Location: North East, United Kingdom
- My Cars: Ex 05 C5 2.0 HDI Exclusive 145k
Ex 97 Xantia 1.9TD SX 144k
Ex 94 Xantia Dimension 1.9TD 199k
To answer my own question, the (babel) fish says "boîte de vitesse manuelle" for "manual gearbox"
As for oils lasting as long as the car, yes maybe they do, but I've changed the oil in mine and it has improved the gearbox no end. Perhaps it had been refilled / toppped up with the wrong oil at some point during it's life it definatly wasn't short of oil before I topped it up. Do the EP ingredients / other additives get used up with age?
The handbook for my Xantia does mention API-GL5 in the spec of the required gear oil but in any case I filled it with the correct "Total Transmission BV New Formula" oil to be on the safe side of things.
As for oils lasting as long as the car, yes maybe they do, but I've changed the oil in mine and it has improved the gearbox no end. Perhaps it had been refilled / toppped up with the wrong oil at some point during it's life it definatly wasn't short of oil before I topped it up. Do the EP ingredients / other additives get used up with age?
The handbook for my Xantia does mention API-GL5 in the spec of the required gear oil but in any case I filled it with the correct "Total Transmission BV New Formula" oil to be on the safe side of things.
-
cheesesliceking
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by davek-uk</i>
I really can't tell cheesesliceking - not that's it a trade secret but because I've never done anything with the linkage in the 90k/3+ years I've had it. As I said, Slick50 and new gearbox oil improved the gearbox loads.
What didn't improve things was a recent visit to KwikFit for an exhaust blowing around one of their previous repairs.
The first chap, who dashed off to drive it on the ramps, came back quickly - at over 6 foot he couldn't fit into the drivers seat! The second kept stalling it and I could tell he had third gear instead of first, anyway he drove it onto the ramps and they fixed the leak.
When they went to drive the car off the gear linkage was loose and when they raised it up on the ramps one of the rods was hanging off. They tried blaming that on me suggesting that oil/grease/road-muck had clogged the ball joint and it had rotted – “just a coincidence that it should fall apart now”. The guy who drove it onto the ramps said the gear leaver was loose. When I insisted they look at it properly, they found a bent rod; straightened it and everything clicked back into place. They must have bent the rod trying to slam it into first gear...
I hate 'grease monkeys' (no disrespect to proper mechanics) getting anywhere near my cars. When I drove a 2.8 Capri they treated it with some reverence - but now...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Typical fliping grease monkeys,, sit drooling over max power all day and lusting over a new bodkit & led Gear Shift & when the time comes for them to get off their flabby greasy backside & do some actual work, they realise they dont have a clue about anything other than how many different Neons you can fit to the bottom of a Vauxhall Corsa.. & which LED washer jets give you 2 billion BHP..AARRRGGGGGGGH..
[}:)]*Rant Over*[}:)]
So is it fairly easy peasy to change the oil over in the AX gear box? mine's a bit nothcy & i'll give anything a try, i like the idea about the Slick 50, that stuff is great.. And you get a sticker with it too![:I]
However..Im a bit confused as to which oil i need.. so do i need a API spec GL-4 - oil, or an Total Transmission BV New Formula for a for an 89 AX GT?
TTFN
[:D]
I really can't tell cheesesliceking - not that's it a trade secret but because I've never done anything with the linkage in the 90k/3+ years I've had it. As I said, Slick50 and new gearbox oil improved the gearbox loads.
What didn't improve things was a recent visit to KwikFit for an exhaust blowing around one of their previous repairs.
The first chap, who dashed off to drive it on the ramps, came back quickly - at over 6 foot he couldn't fit into the drivers seat! The second kept stalling it and I could tell he had third gear instead of first, anyway he drove it onto the ramps and they fixed the leak.
When they went to drive the car off the gear linkage was loose and when they raised it up on the ramps one of the rods was hanging off. They tried blaming that on me suggesting that oil/grease/road-muck had clogged the ball joint and it had rotted – “just a coincidence that it should fall apart now”. The guy who drove it onto the ramps said the gear leaver was loose. When I insisted they look at it properly, they found a bent rod; straightened it and everything clicked back into place. They must have bent the rod trying to slam it into first gear...
I hate 'grease monkeys' (no disrespect to proper mechanics) getting anywhere near my cars. When I drove a 2.8 Capri they treated it with some reverence - but now...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Typical fliping grease monkeys,, sit drooling over max power all day and lusting over a new bodkit & led Gear Shift & when the time comes for them to get off their flabby greasy backside & do some actual work, they realise they dont have a clue about anything other than how many different Neons you can fit to the bottom of a Vauxhall Corsa.. & which LED washer jets give you 2 billion BHP..AARRRGGGGGGGH..
[}:)]*Rant Over*[}:)]
So is it fairly easy peasy to change the oil over in the AX gear box? mine's a bit nothcy & i'll give anything a try, i like the idea about the Slick 50, that stuff is great.. And you get a sticker with it too![:I]
However..Im a bit confused as to which oil i need.. so do i need a API spec GL-4 - oil, or an Total Transmission BV New Formula for a for an 89 AX GT?
TTFN
[:D]
CSK -
An '89 AX definately uses the earlier type gearoil API spec GL-4 - or the Total "BV" gearoil.
I have'nt got a clue on what API spec the later "new formula BV" gearoil has. If "new formula" refers to API spec GL-5 - then it's a NO-NO for your AX.
I guess Jon may be able to clarify this - from the goods resting on the shelves in GSF.
An '89 AX definately uses the earlier type gearoil API spec GL-4 - or the Total "BV" gearoil.
I have'nt got a clue on what API spec the later "new formula BV" gearoil has. If "new formula" refers to API spec GL-5 - then it's a NO-NO for your AX.
I guess Jon may be able to clarify this - from the goods resting on the shelves in GSF.
-
Jon