1.9 16V into ZX 8V Volcane

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gradeafailure
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1.9 16V into ZX 8V Volcane

Post by gradeafailure »

Has anyone ever done this conversion or know of anyone who has? My J-plate 5dr Volcane (petrol) engine is getting a bit tired but the rest of the car is sound, and I was toying with the idea of sourcing a 405/BX 16V engine. I know the 205>16V conversion is quite involved but I'm guessing that because the ZX did come with a 16V at one point the conversion wouldn't be as bad?
Does anyone have any advice, even if it's along the lines of "don't bother"?!
Cheers!
adrianeaton
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Post by adrianeaton »

Hiya
Have a read of this post:
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... hTerms=16V
It covers the wiring aspects and exhaust which are the only issues that require ANY effort at all! 'thatorangething' is the guru of the conversion and might be worth an e-mail if you want to progress this.
The 1.9 alloy engine from the BX/405 is lighter than the 2.0 and produces more power so it's a worthwhile conversion and gives a Volcane a useful extra boost ;-) It won't be as quick as a BX due to the ZX weighing more but it will probably last longer and go round corners better!
Try robbing an engine from an Mi-16 if you can, only to redress the number of BX's that have died to power 205's!
To give you an idea of cost, a BX 16V sold on eBay this morning for £255 - if you buy a seperate engine you can expect to pay that for the engine alone.
Adrian
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Post by CITMAN »

Id be careful you dont end up with an engine that is as tired as yours. Wouldnt it be a good idea to have your existing engine overhauled. That way the car remains orignal.
gradeafailure
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Post by gradeafailure »

Does anyone know anywhere in the Surrey/Hants area that'd be able to overhaul the engine, and how much it's likely to cost then? I had the valve stem oil seals done and the top end sorted about 35k ago but it still feels a bit rough and sounds like a diesel at idle!
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benj
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Post by benj »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Citman: Id be careful you dont end up with an engine that is as tired as yours <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> yes be careful
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Citman: Wouldnt it be a good idea to have your existing engine overhauled<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> yes if thats all your after
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Citman: That way the car remains orignal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> who cares?!!
your either doing it to gain the power and characteristics of the 16v motor or you want to repair your tired motor. make your mind up which and dont listen to the scaremongers. kill british ingenuity you lot.
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Post by Paulmi16 »

I would suggest talking to your insurance company, as you may not be able to insure it or it will cost a fair bit as the don't like modified cars.
Paul.
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benj
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Post by benj »

this is a myth,
this is 100% true : my 25 year old brother was charged no extra for putting an mi 16 engine into his 205 gti 1.6 by his existing insurer
when asked why he was doing it he told them the original engine had blown and this mi 16 engine is all he could find.
im 22 with 4 years no claims, i am charged £500 quid tpft or £1000 fully comp for a Q reg Xr2i with rs turbo conversion and 180bhp, now thats less than i pay for my zx 16v at £1100 fully comp, specialist companies who deal with modified cars are likely to qoute less than normal companies dealing with out of the box performance motors.
they realise there is less risk as owners cherish these motors.
also anyone serious about the conversion would not see insurance as a set back, only pie in the sky dreamers
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benj
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Post by benj »

ps if anyones got a seriously modifeid car try Hyperformance Insurance (think that is how it is spelt) you may be surprised.
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Post by Paulmi16 »

Am i a 'pie in the sky dreamer' Benj?
I have a 205 with an Mi16 engine and that was my experience with insurance. I only speak as i find.
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Post by VisaGTi16v »

1100!
yes im 26 but with my 4 years I was quoted about 600 for my zx 16v. Im paying 330 3rd party f+f with Admiral
My visa gti with its mi16 cost me 320 to insure 3rd party f+f as I did it through Adrain Flux's special vehicles section. It is fully stripped out with just a roll cage and a couple of bucket seats etc. Everything else was also changed, suspension, brakes and so on and I declared every single bit, even down to the camshaft profile :)
I think what they often do is just look at the car the engine came out of, ie the 205 gti is probably group 13/14 ? and I expect the 405 mi16 is as well hence no price difference.
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benj
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Post by benj »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a 205 with an Mi16 engine and that was my experience with insurance. I only speak as i find.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
so did you phone for qoutes before or after you did the conversion?
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Post by Paulmi16 »

I did phone for quotes before doing the conversion in case I ever had to sell the car. I run mine on my traders policy so they Could'nt care less about it. Having said that some companies at renewal time when shopping around declined to cover it.
A friend of my brother had a 1.2 Renault 11 and he blew the engine. Somebody gave him a 1.4 engine out of an mot failure and his insurance company wanted nearly as much as the original premuim and an engineers report before they would cover it.
This was 3 years ago. Perhaps insurance companies are becoming more user friendly?
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Post by CITMAN »

I was just thinking benj [:o)](joke an attempt at humour)that he might have problems sourcing parts for the engine if he decided to pop an mi16 engine in there. Because there must be modifications which are made to these during the production run. And therefore it might be a hit and miss affair finding the right bit for the right engine.
So really matey boy its a valid point[^]
So it might be a good idea to get the donor cars vin number etc.
alan s
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Post by alan s »

Well I can't speak for over there as I live in Kangaroo country, but I know they are red hot on it out here.
I owned a BX Trs auto that had been converted to manual & it needed an engineers certification for that even.
They also have a system of classifying things such as "statutory write offs" which are cars written off as being unrepairable & are kept in a data base, hence anything appearing with anything associated with the VIN of that vehicle comes under strict scrutiny to be sure they aren't being "rebirthed" (stolen car using written off cars ID numbers.)
As most of the Worlds regulations seem to be based on the "monkey see, monkey do" principle, I'd suggest making some serious enquiries (get them in writing) before embarking down too many mod paths.
As I told my son when he was buying his Nissan GT-R; "You'll spend a fortune getting it insured" to which he responded "Don't be stoopid; course I'll get it insured!!"
He was right; it cost him A$3500 for premium with a $2500 age excess plus standard excess.
By comparison, my BX 16V costs me A$330 with all up excesses of A$250 and a guaranteed value above market price.
As a well known touring car driver was once quoted as saying after he'd beaten a much younger competitor. "A pinch of experience is worth more than a kilo of enthusiasm."Pity at times when the cost of the experience has to be paid for with the enthusiasm.
Alan S [:D][:D]
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Post by adrianeaton »

Alan
It may surprise you to know that in the UK pretty much anything goes on mods to cars so long as you don't breach any of the Construction & Use Regulations. If you're not altering lighting or fitting cow horns etc then the only thing that really applies is Reg 100. This is a catch all that states something along of lines that you can't do anything that might cause a danger to either the occupants of a vehicle or someone outside the vehicle.
As far as engine mods go, fitting another engine from the same manufacturer that was originally available will usually only result in a premium equivelant to the larger engined model. Once you start fitting go faster bits to the engine they'll take an interest.
Some insurance companies are not keen to cover performance vehicles or any type, but some in the UK are much more friendly than others.
Our Xsara VTS is insured with Adrian Flux because they were the cheapest, but they are also prepared to accept mods of all kinds without charging a fortune.
Engineers reports are usually only needed if you've chopped the bodyshell in some way or rebuilt a write-off.
In the majority of cases you don't even need a new MOT unless the old one's expired while you've been working!
On the subject of the Volcane, if you want more power go the 16V route but be prepared to spend some money. If you just want your 8V sorting then get it looked at - what's the mileage by the way?
I know the 8V engines aren't the tightest on the oil front - it certainly put me off the Volcane's I looked at a few years back - but they should be sortable.
If you want someone in the Surrey area to give you an impartial view of the condition of your existing engine, or to swap in a 16V lump I'd have a chat with Witmun Engineering (John Witty) on 01737 644828, based in Merstham.
Regards
Adrian
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