VSX Suspension for Novices

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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by red_dwarfers »

CitroJim wrote:
No, only way to test the Anti-Sink sphere is to have it off and pressure test it... Or a quick test is to see if there is any rear braking available after the engine has been off long enough for the anti-sink valves to operate. The only source of rear brake pressure then is from the Anti-Sink sphere...
The normal sit in the boot test for the main accumulator works.
!
Had a conversation with someone about this a while back. How do the rear brakes know they should operate if the anti sink valve is closed?

On the sphere life front. I had a bit of a job with trying to replace one of the rear spheres on my GSA and decided in the end to keep the 25 year old Pliedies regassed one on. The other side I did replace with a brand new one from Chevronics along with the other 3, the difference in springyness between the two sides is negligable. I believe that ren16tx's GSA is running on spheres that were fitted in the mid 90s. Both his and mine are still softer than my XM with 2 year old spheres and before it's pointed out, the XM is a soft as it should be!

EDIT 2: Actually,I wonder if its something to do with the GSA loosing most of its hydraulic pressure after a few hours?
Last edited by red_dwarfers on 27 Jun 2013, 12:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

red_dwarfers wrote: Had a conversation with someone about this a while back. How do the rear brakes know they should operate if the anti sink valve is closed?
Not sure that your question makes sense ? The rear brakes know to operate when you press the brake pedal :lol:

In all seriousness though, the anti-sink valve is on the supply side of the brake doseur valve, eg before it. The problem is that when the anti-sink valve closes it blocks the flow from the rear suspension/height corrector to the brake doseur valve. The anti-sink sphere is positioned on the doseur valve side of the anti-sink valve. Thus if the anti-sink valve closes the stored pressure in the anti-sink sphere is available to the dosuer valve and therefore the rear brakes. It's better thought of as a rear brake accumulator sphere!
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by red_dwarfers »

Ah that makes sense!

I wasn't sure whether the anti sink valve cut off the line between the doseur valve and rear brakes.
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by CitroJim »

Simon, beautifully and elegantly explained.. Lovely :-D
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Old-Guy »

As Jim says.... :-D
Thanks Simon.

The a/s sphere has lost most of its paint and is probably ripe for replacement. Two front spheres and a rear centre sphere on their way from AEP so I'll see what the suspension is like after I've fitted them.
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Old-Guy »

I've been trying to check the parts nos and ages of the spheres fitted, but with only partial success: -
  • Front corners - part IDs underneath but being replaced anyway (Citroen triple dimple)
    Front Centre - 96181131 7-260-DT (can't find it on service.citroen)
    Rear corners - 96239027 5-193 FU (ditto)
    Rear Centre - 96045530 7-205 DT (as listed by service.citroen)
    Accumulator - N45304 06-10-06 (Amtek as listed for a VSX)
    Anti-sink - only a few flecks of paint left!
Can anyone identify the unlisted Citroen part nos and/or translate the date codes please? I don't know if 7 means 97 (original spheres!) or 2007 ('only' six years old).
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

Old-Guy wrote:I've been trying to check the parts nos and ages of the spheres fitted, but with only partial success: -
  • Front corners - part IDs underneath but being replaced anyway (Citroen triple dimple)
    Front Centre - 96181131 7-260-DT (can't find it on service.citroen)
    Rear corners - 96239027 5-193 FU (ditto)
    Rear Centre - 96045530 7-205 DT (as listed by service.citroen)
    Accumulator - N45304 06-10-06 (Amtek as listed for a VSX)
    Anti-sink - only a few flecks of paint left!
Can anyone identify the unlisted Citroen part nos and/or translate the date codes please? I don't know if 7 means 97 (original spheres!) or 2007 ('only' six years old).
I can't help you decipher the date codes but the Citroen part numbers beginning with 96 I have the listings for. Have a look at these files they should all be listed:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... a_spheres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

M for the sphere type means multilayer long life while D or U are the standard single layer diaphgram spheres.
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Old-Guy »

Thanks yet again, Simon

Your table says 96 181 131 is a front centre sphere 450cc/75bar/1.1mm damper hole/Multilayer diaphragm - so it's the correct one but apparently now obsolete. Although I've got no bill for it, it looks to be one of the newest on the car, replaced around the same time as the rear centre.

96 239 027 is estate rear corner 400/40/0.8/single layer 'Desmopan' diaphragm - again obsolete.
your tables provides the additional info on the rear centre sphere that the diaphragm is Urepan (Urethane?)

I'm beginning to think that those date codes have to be 21st century, otherwise the factory fitted rear corner spheres were over 2 years old!
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

I used to pressure test my spheres in New Zealand - mainly because at $120 - $140 EACH (in those days £48 - £56) you couldn't afford to change them on a whim! (And because of that we did some re-gassing as well)

It was also easy to get them off and back on again due to no road salt corrosion underneath... Here when you can get them for £20 each and run a real risk of damaging the rear cylinders each time you attempt to remove them, and removing them is just a pain in the butt due to the corrosion, the case for taking spheres off for pressure testing before ordering replacements is far less clear cut, especially on a newly acquired car with rusty unknown spheres.

All 4 of the rear spheres on my V6 were totally shot when I bought it and the front was riding fairly hard too, the only sphere that was known good was the accumulator so I just replaced the lot minus the accumulator and I now have a base to work from, I know that they've all done 15 months, and they all have the install date written clearly on them in marker pen to remind me, so I'll know roughly when they need replacing...
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote:I used to pressure test my spheres in New Zealand
Heck of a way to go just to test spheres Simon :roll: :lol:

Surely you could find somewhere a little more local?
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
Mandrake wrote:I used to pressure test my spheres in New Zealand
Heck of a way to go just to test spheres Simon :roll: :lol:

Surely you could find somewhere a little more local?
Good point Jim, I'll pop down to yours for a quick sphere pressure test and a cuppa this weekend. Much closer. :lol: :twisted:
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by CitroJim »

Come down to DSM then Simon, I’ll have the sphere tester there. Only 12 miles further on from my house :wink:
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

Not sure if I'd trust the old girl on such a long trip Jim! ;) I'd love to come down to one of the meet ups but I'm just not sure this is the car to do it in...iffy gearbox, a slight leak on the top plate of the pressure regulator that could get bad without warning, dodgy coolant tank seam and a few other niggles that murphys law says will bite me if I drive too far from home! :twisted:
Last edited by Mandrake on 28 Jun 2013, 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

How far is too far?
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Re: VSX Suspension for Novices

Post by Mandrake »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:How far is too far?
Who knows ?! Ask Murphy :lol:

With its current outstanding issues I'd feel nervous about being more than about 200 miles from home tops I think...even though I might do twice that mileage in a month without issues I'm never too far from home should something go wrong.
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