Ruptured sphere removal - high pressure risk ?

[xantia_v6]

I have used Lizarte spheres,and they fitted without problems. I could not say the same for their UK distributor.

[Hell Razor5543]

I also have used 'Lizarte' spheres, both on my previous Xantia and on Gracie, and I have had no problems.

[charentejohn]

Must just be unlucky then ?
I have felt both by running my finger around the threads, the old ones are smooth, the Lizarte are rough like they had been knocked about a bit. They haven't, still had protectors on.
Maybe just the end of a tool run and the cutter needed changing ?

I will try the garage tomorrow, they do tractors and must have a suitable sized nut, 35mm I think, that I can use to smooth them out.
Don't fancy forcing them with the removal tool as that will damage the rams and leave small filings present, I will try the Nut method.

[CitroJim]

For a nut you could try using an old, scrap steel sphere block. Those are very hard and might rescue the thread but never try, as said, to force them home in a rear cylinder as that will really do damage.

Can you not swap them under warranty?

[Peter.N.]

I had trouble with one Lizarte sphere on the rear on my C5, it went in a few turns and then became stiff, I removed it and checked the thread but it was OK, so I screwed it in a little way past the tight point several times and eventually it went all the way. As the old sphere came off with no trouble I can only assume that the thread on the Lizarte was either damaged or sub standard.

Peter

[Mandrake]

Perhaps screw the sphere into one of the front strut mounts (which are steel instead of alloy) to clean up the thread a bit ?

[charentejohn]

I have been trying to think of a good way to redo the thread. If bad I have run a hacksaw blade down a nut (if big enough) so there is a sharp edge to cut into the thread, if I can find a nut tomorrow I will do that.
I may also ring Pleiades and see what their die costs, as I also need the seal for the accumulator sphere, didn't get one with the one they sent, only 3 seals.

Companies here in France aren't the best for customer service. I doubt explaining they are not really fit for purpose will work. Even if it does it will be quicker to just fix it myself.
The supplers said 48 hr delivery, so I ordered 9am Tuesday expecting despatch the same day and arrival on Thursday, friday at the latest. They sent them out on Friday and they arrived the following Tuesday (48 hrs working days). I e-mailed to complain - silence. Just the way it is.
I have sent them an e-mail as worth a try but I think I will just get fobbed off.

I will do a couple of photos tomorrow to show the difference in threads, it really is a big difference.

[Peter.N.]

I wouldn't worry about using the old seal, I often do.

Peter

[charentejohn]

Thanks, if I can find a nut to fit and clean the threads with it I can at least do the job tomorrow.

[charentejohn]

Photos- old sphere (brand unknown)
New, yuk....this is unused as I have just removed the cap. You can see the sharp cut and bas edges, also the swarf in the grooves. I cleaned the ones I tried to fit but bad thread is the problem. You can see how bad it is fro the run out on the thread hearest to the sphere, looks like a hacksaw blade.


I would just give up and buy another brand just to get the car going again, but who to trust ?

Edited to add - Just spoke to Peiades but unfortunately they have thread cutters they use but only have 2 so not for sale. Nice guy who described the current threads as a bit 'scuzzy' which I think is about right.
Suggested a thread file as an alternative, I will see if I can find one or just use the nut idea.

[CitroJim]

That does look quite a bad thread.

As for nuts, one source will be an S2 XM that's being scrapped as the anti-sink sphere is held on with the correct size of nut or perhaps easier to get, a Xantia anti-sink sphere bracket has the correct nut although this is captive and not very deep or strong. the bad sphere thread might damage the thread in the anti-sink bracket.

Alternatively, take your new and old spheres to an engineering shop ad they may be able to chuck-up the sphere in a lathe and run a thread cutting tool along it - the thread is a standard M size.

Hope something will soon work for you John...

[electronmirror]

I have in the past carefully used a small triangular shape Swiss file in an emergency to clean up a large diameter thread. I didn't have access to a die and couldn't find a suitable nut. I'm not sure if the thread form on a sphere is 60 or 55 degree, if it is 55 the file may not reach down into the root and clear out the swarf, I can't find my 'Zeus' reference book to check metric versus other threads.

Your photo of the offending item looks a lot like shperes I've bought in the last few years but they've never caused the aggravation you are experiencing.

Good luck

[Mandrake]

I would just give up and buy another brand just to get the car going again, but who to trust ?

That thread does look pretty awful... are they all like that ? I had no problem with the threads on the IFHS spheres I fitted to my Xantia...but you might be able to salvage those ones with a very small triangular thread file.

I would be tempted to get some IFHS spheres and try to get your money back on those ones as "not fit for purpose" despite your misgivings about the likely success of a refund. At least the car won't be off the road while you wrangle with them!

[Sean602]

metric thread file - following picked at random from the many returns
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AE2670-A-E-TH ... 2a110ee10d

[charentejohn]

Thanks, all good ideas.
I wrote to the suppliers, silence as expected.
On the upside I found a small diamond file (flat one side half round on the other) which has literally taken the edge off.
I tried one sphere as a test and managed to get it almost all the way, also started easier. I just ran this over the tops of the threads to take the peaks off, then used a small wire brush to remove all rubbish from the grooves.
I could take more off the end threads once I protect the flat area on the sphere that needs to seal on the rubber O ring. Just don't want to put a groove in it. I will make a piece of metal to cover the seal seat and file more off.

I think these must be done with a basic pointed cutting tool on a lathe, so it does the groove ok but leaves the ridges rough. The difference between old and new is the old ones have rounded ridges, so they fit.....
I am hoping that cleaning the ridges will allow them to fit. I think better quality ones must use a die system or computer controlled cutter to shape the threads not just gouge them
All spheres are the same so I will need to do all three, that said it won't happen again as I will never buy - a. this brand again b. from this supplier.
I think I can sort this out even though I shouldn't have to, next time I will e-mail the manufacturer to ask them to reassure me all is ok. I e-mailed Lizarte - silence.......

This turned a 2 hr job into 3 lost days and counting.
That said now I know what I need to do to replace spheres so any future changes will be easier by comparison. At least these problems are like they 'not completely wasted as they serve as a bad example to others'. So any similar problems, now we know.

I liked the idea of using a scrap nut section, accumulator etc, to ease the thread. I am off to see if I can find a nut to fit tomorrow, else off to the scrapyard.