Suspension arm bushes

[isisalar]

Had the HDI mot'd on Tues and to my delight it passed!
There was an advisory however that the front lower arm rear bushes both had some play. I called a local indy and he said that as a matter of course they change the whole arm as changing the bushes is difficult, he hasn't yet called back with a price.
A quick look on E bay shows bushes with brackets from £8-£30, and arms from about £50-£160.
Could any of you kind chaps give me any guidance here? I doubt it's a job I'd do myself since my axle stands and my trolley jack went 'travelling'. How many hours labour do you think, any make of part recommended or to be avoided, new arm or new bush or anything else to consider?
Thanks
Paul

[Hell Razor5543]

I have not had to do those bushes myself, so I cannot say how long/difficult it is. However something I did read was you had to make sure the car was level (in its' normal running position) before fully tightening the bolts on the arm. Otherwise the bushes are not lined up properly, and will wear out at a silly rate of knots (and that is now the limit of my knowledge re. bushes!!).

[rory_perrett]

I've never had to do the front bushes on any of the 3 Xantias I have had but have had to replace the rear P Bushes on the current car. I have a theory that the orientation of the rear bushes is critical and replacement ones tend to wear more quickly than the originals. Anyway back to front ones, if you can find a good pair of secondhand arms with the P bushes still on and in good condition a complete arm swap is the quickest and easiest way to go (and possibly the cheapest).

Did this on the current car at 235,000 miles because the rear P bushes were shot, replaced with a set off a car that had done about 80,000 miles. Car now at 287,000 miles and no sign of them needing doing again in the near future.

[evilally]

Yes, the P bush tends to wear, the other one in all likelyhood will be fine. Garages generally go for a complete arm swap as a couple of hours labour to change the bushes doesn't make it economical for the customer. If you do it yourself, there's a good video on Youtube of a chap changing Xantia P bushes. It's not actually too difficult. If you go for a complete arm or just a replacement bush, it pays to get decent quality parts. Motaquip arms on my 406 were £43 a side, I think these are the same arms as fitted to Xantias. The benefit of a complete arm is that you don't have to worry about bush alignment, however on the Xantia I think it is clearly marked what way the bush should go. Assuming you have no trouble splitting the balljoint, swapping the arms is an easy job (you will also require wheel alignment after).

[c.morewood]

My rear bushes lasted about 8 years 90% motorway driving approx 180,000 miles. But after my move 5 years ago, its all roundabouts and sharp country corners.
I got them replaced at a garage with £8 ones. They lasted about 1,000 miles.
I then got them done again with GSF ones. They lasted about 5,000 miles.
Had another try myself but didn't align them properly and they gave up about 3,000 miles
So I decided to research on this forum and discovered that unless the bushes are assembled on the wishbone at exactly the right angle they will fail prematurely. So i decided to try fitting them myself.
I bought a set of 2nd hand wishbones, hoping the possible the bushes would be good enough to use. Unfortunately they weren't. I then bought a set of P bushes from GSF, the most expensive ones and using the diagram in this thread
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 10#p314210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

proceeded to fit them to the spare wishbones (I used a flat steel table to get the angle correct before hammering the bushes onto the wishbone) and then was able to swap the good wishbones for my old ones on the car in an hour or so.
That was a year ago and about 25k ish miles and fingers crossed they're still fine... So my conclusion was the quality of the bushes and the angle of fitment are crucial and it helps if you have a spare set of wishbones.
I'd be pleased to swap my spare wishbones with members for postage cost if that helps anyone.

Chris

[isisalar]

Well thank you everyone for all that information, very useful. Having read the earlier thread in the link I'm now a bit apprehensive about getting the new arms fitted as it seems to be very easy to get it wrong.
I've done a bit more research and GSF and AEP complete arms are both about £70 and given that the bush position should be spot on I think this is the best way to go, although I would be happier to keep the original arms.
Re the fitting:- Should it involve levels and measuring, or is it that the bracket is fitted loose and then tightened when the car is at running height, is the order the nuts are tightened important, how is that 8mm gap achieved? It's very frustrating not being able to do the job myself and having to entrust it to a stranger so apologies for all the questions.
Would these worn bushes increase fuel consumption?
Cheers
Paul

[rory_perrett]

Paul

The routine is to do the final tightening of the bolts/ nuts when the car is on its wheels and at the normal driving height suspension setting. I do the front bush bolts first on each side followed but the ones for the rear p-bushes.

The reason the orientation of the p bush is so critical is that it is "set" at the point it is fitted to the arm. If it is in the wrong position when it is put on the car as it "settles" the metal bush will not rotate on the arm to the correct position but will the rubber bush will twist. This means that a torque will be permanently applied to the rubber bush when in the "normal" position. This is something rubber bushes don't like and causes early failure. If it already has a degree of twist in one direction when the arm moves in the opposite direction more twist will be added pushing the bush beyond its designed range.

Getting it right on the arm in the first place is vital, it is not something that can be adjusted once it is on the car.

Rory

[c.morewood]

"Getting it right on the arm in the first place is vital, it is not something that can be adjusted once it is on the car."

A flat board or tabletop would work to do the setting up. But you have to align the bush to the correct angle with the wishbone and you can only get the bush to push on about 2 or 3mm manually. You may have to tap/push it on and then remove it a few times before you're satisfied with the angle.
Once you're satisfied the alignment is correct you have to use a press, or lump hammer in my case, to persuade the bush on to the spigot of the wishbone. If you're using the hammer method, be careful you don't twist the bush slightly as you hammer it home which will upset the angle.. they're almost impossible to remove after going on a cm or two without doing damage to the bush.
It sounds a lot of work, but if you have set aside time for it and have a garage to work in AND take your time setting up the angle, its relatively easy.
Now I've found out the correct way to do them and they've lasted over 25K, I'd be happy doing them again.
I hope this helps,
Good luck,
Chris