hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

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russ hdi
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hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by russ hdi »

hi i own an 8v 110 hdi
over christmas i have had injectors cleaned, cleaned inlet and elbow, new fuel filter and ran fuel cleaner through system, fitted cone filter on mainly because the battery i have fitted from my iveco van (a very good battery) is a bit big...
i have been informed that the glowplugs dont come into effect until -10 so im know getting concerned as to difficulty in starting first thing or left in work car park all day in the cold we have had a skin layer of snow but thats about it...not cold enough to bother a diesel surely.
it takes about 15-25 seconds of cranking before she kicks (smoke too for about 3 seconds presumably from a bit of flooding whilst cranking) and is reluctant to rev initially a few stabs at the loud pedal gets her going and all is fine after that , maybe a v.v.v.very minor lumpy idle like the sort you would only feel if it was your car.
if i stop of at shops or something on journey the car will start no problems ...warm. is it air intake , is pump on its way out, or is it the glowplugs and i have been told wrong many thanks russ
CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI SX 2003

Currently rebuilding grand espace 2.2 rxe full leather 3 sunroofs
Northern_Mike

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Northern_Mike »

I'm assured that this is the starter motor, even though it sounds like it's cranking fast enough, it's not.. I had the same problem once it got cold with both the Berlingo and C5, both 2.0 8v HDIs. I never got round to fitting the replacement starter I have, and now it's got a bit warmer, the problem has gone again.

I replaced the glowplugs in mine as they were showing a fault on the lexia back in summer, so it's probably not them on mine either!
citroenxm
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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by citroenxm »

HDis rarely in the UK need heater plugs.

My own 110 8v hdi is now on 233k, and Ive still not from 156k EVER fitted heater plugs. And I never fitted any to another customer one that ran from 103k to 286k..

I think you need to look a bit further down into the fuel system. A HDi wont start untill the rail pressure reaches a certain pressure. When the car starts does it hunt a bit, or will it idle perfectly smoothly after starting??

Id next be looking at the Fuel Rail pressure sensor, that sits in the bottom of the rail, behind the fuel filter. Dont worry, unplug it and unscrew it, it self seals when you unscrew it...

After that, it could be the pressure regulator on the end of the fuel pump...

Thats all else that can cause your issues..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Northern_Mike

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Northern_Mike »

citroenxm wrote:HDis rarely in the UK need heater plugs.
Mine had all failed at less than 70k in the Berlingo. DickieG's lexia confirmed this. It also confirmed no faults with the fuel pressure or sensors.

I'm assured by a Citroen specialist that the poor starting in winter is not uncommon, and it's the starter motor at fault. Seeing as it's warmed up and my problem has gone, I can't be bothered to fit the spare starter.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by citroenxm »

Lexia isn't always right too mike..

my hdi cutting out problem , lexia told me pressure reference fault.. what would that tell you? pressure sensor? possibly.. but no it wasn't.. it was the perfectly fine fuel pump at fault .. i fitted another pump and she's right as rain..

i also had a hdi in with a starting issue.. it would go eventually and hunt.. again lexia gave me no clues.. so after swapping the rail pressure sensor the hunting went and the car started..

i think i said ive personally never come across any starting issues from lack of heater plug performance..

if i didn't, that's what i meant...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Northern_Mike

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Northern_Mike »

citroenxm wrote:Lexia isn't always right too mike..

my hdi cutting out problem , lexia told me pressure reference fault.. what would that tell you? pressure sensor? possibly.. but no it wasn't.. it was the perfectly fine fuel pump at fault .. i fitted another pump and she's right as rain..

i also had a hdi in with a starting issue.. it would go eventually and hunt.. again lexia gave me no clues.. so after swapping the rail pressure sensor the hunting went and the car started..

i think i said ive personally never come across any starting issues from lack of heater plug performance..

if i didn't, that's what i meant...

I too shall clarify what I meant - mine works fine, runs fine, starts fine in anything under temperatures under about 5c. Then it takes a little more churning. That's all. Now, the temps are up again, it's fine. When it does start, it idles properly immediately, and runs properly.
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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by JohnD »

I had the problem of difficult starting with my C5 four years ago. Finally I put it into a Citroen and he diagnosed that the starter wasn't turning over fast enough for the cold engine.
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citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
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L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by citroenxm »

How interesting with this starter thing.. very interesting...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Gibbo2286
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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Have you checked that the preheat plug control box is working correctly? A common fault on all diesels is that it goes faulty with age and either doesn't work at all or works but for too short a time, starts too late, finishes too early or is simply corroded around the terminal connections and thus has too much resistance.

This one:

Image
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Xantidote
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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Xantidote »

Interesting talk about HDI glowplugs not operating unless it's really cold, and of starter motors not turning over fast enough.

As it gets colder, the battery will always have less grunt to spin the engine. Maybe for our winter weather conditions, we could do with HDI glowplugs coming on at slightly higher temperature than they actually do. Yes, maybe the control box is not working correctly, or starter not in as new condition. Would be interesting to see if an HDI starting problem in cold weather could be circumvented by a temporary jump lead from battery direct to glowplugs. I make this comment as a TD owner, with limited knowledge of the HDI, but I can't see why not.
Martin

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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Both my C5 2.0 HDIs have fired up at first touch even on the coldest of recent days and even after being buried in two feet of snow for three days so I doubt it is a C5 or HDI specific problem
Man is, by nature, a lazy beast, he does not need twice encouraging to do nothing.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by citroenxm »

Gibbo2286 wrote:Both my C5 2.0 HDIs have fired up at first touch even on the coldest of recent days and even after being buried in two feet of snow for three days so I doubt it is a C5 or HDI specific problem

my xantia has also been like this and she has 233k on her.. this was what i was trying to say in my first reply but others seem certain its the starter..

time will tell but Im not gettin involved any further..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
russ hdi
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Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by russ hdi »

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I have been busy replacing everything mentioned except starter because that was a silly suggestion... right.....

Nothing changed.....

Brought a new starter....


Works perfectly know...
Pride swallowed.
CITROEN C5 2.0 HDI SX 2003

Currently rebuilding grand espace 2.2 rxe full leather 3 sunroofs
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: hdi trouble starting .. .. runnning out of ideas

Post by citroenxm »

Well I SINCERELY APOLOGISE FOR ANY INCORRECT INFORMATION..

again going from my own experiences ive never had starter issues as raised here..

I live and learn...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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